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Razorgore Video

Thalin
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Here is a Horde group completing the egg phase and taking out razorgore. Very interesting

http://www.curse-gaming.com/movie.php?movid=54

Youll need to go to the filefront link to grab it, dont worry about the codecs, seems to play fine on WMP.
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*the wheelchair*
     
Makin
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Maybe this is a dumb question, but how did they get all the Legionarie's to just walk around like that? It seems like all they had to fight were the mages and the Dragonkin and the Legionaires weren't even an issue.
     
sefoniel
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Arch Druid (at least according to BA!)
I haven't seen it yet, but I'd imagine that they used a lot of Earthbind totems.
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sefoniel
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Arch Druid (at least according to BA!)
Having watched it, I don't think this is a strategy we can use - but they have several tactics we can.

1) They use Razoregore to kill the far eggs first. This means that the dragonkin and the orcs are seperated out.

2) Looks like all their mages are on mage killing duty, while all their tanks are on aggro pulling from the non-mages. Not sure how useful this would be to us without the earthbind totems.

3) Their druids appear to be entirely on Dragonkin sleeping duty and spot heals. I really think this is a good plan - sleep is a cheap spell and its not like we'll draw aggro from the Dragonkin anyways.
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FIXME: http://pics.livejournal.com/skyknyt/pic/000d5kxy
     
Gwen
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you guys know what kind of combat mod the undead mage in the video was using?
it showed a number on top of the mage's head everytime he got healed or did a damage
     
Epo
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More DPS than your raid combined!
quote:
Originally posted by Gwen:
you guys know what kind of combat mod the undead mage in the video was using?
it showed a number on top of the mage's head everytime he got healed or did a damage

I didn't watch the video, but I can assume by your description that it's SCT.
     
Tygranaric
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You know the best bit? This new hand? It's a FIGHTIN hand!
The only PROBLEM with sleep as a tactic is a simple one, namely that while it works, and the sleep resist on these isn't near as bad as Drakk's minions, we can only do this once each. Meaning for it to do much good without shamans It A) has to get respected, which tends not to happen, and B) It will need more than 4 druids. 6 or 7, in fact.
     
Gwen
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quote:
Originally posted by Epo:
quote:
Originally posted by Gwen:
you guys know what kind of combat mod the undead mage in the video was using?
it showed a number on top of the mage's head everytime he got healed or did a damage

I didn't watch the video, but I can assume by your description that it's SCT.


What would I do without your infinite wisdom oh great Epo?

<3
     
sefoniel
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Arch Druid (at least according to BA!)
quote:
Originally posted by Tygranaric:
The only PROBLEM with sleep as a tactic is a simple one, namely that while it works, and the sleep resist on these isn't near as bad as Drakk's minions, we can only do this once each. Meaning for it to do much good without shamans It A) has to get respected, which tends not to happen, and B) It will need more than 4 druids. 6 or 7, in fact.


More druids, or warlocks covering the excess with fear.
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FIXME: http://pics.livejournal.com/skyknyt/pic/000d5kxy
     
Elofax
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Holy Assassin of Elune
The video analysis revealed several interesting points:

1. Mobs that came up to the platform were mostly feared, with an occasional dragonspawn being slept (probably when one or two dragonspawns showed up between fear timer resets)

2. Mages were the priority mobs to kill--with their ranged spells, they're more likely to sit in one place and inflict damage than join the great love train. Looked like rogues, warriors, and some mages were assigned to do nothing but kill orc mages.

3. Razorgore's damage abilities didn't look like they got used, presumably to try to keep aggro off of him and on the train leaders. Hard to tell if he was doing any sleeping or not. Egg destruction order was closest egg each time control regained, then moving to Razorgore's platform and doing the eggs there first, gradually moving to the orb platform--presumably gives the controller more time to reestablish control before Razor reaches the orb and damages the controllers and platform fear-clearers.

4. Melee mobs were kept moving in a train in the center of the room. For the Horde, Earthbind totems are used to slow them, and they seemed to be chasing the shamans (shamans having decent armor, healing capabilities, and presumably some way to grab and hold aggro if the mobs aren't being beat on by other players). I also saw occasional arcane explosions and at least one shielded mage running/blinking. This is the section of the fight that we will need to adapt.

5. Razorgore was tanked in a corner, giving people plenty of space to spread out and use ranged attacks. Also, this positioning has him close to a balcony, so that badly wounded players can hide behind a nearby pillar, breaking los to avoid the mass target fireballs and giving them a chance to bandage.

6. Most classes when fighting Razorgore are taking mostly fire damage. Good gear balancing FR/stats will be important for this fight, just like Ragnaros.

7. During the egg breaking phase, I noticed many of the dragonspawn had hunter's marks on them. Is this to make it easier to keep track of them, or are hunters using ranged attacks to pull the dragons off the platform, then kiting them when they're not slept/feared?

8. Hunters with jumper cables seemed to be a primary method of ressing the fallen at the start of the Razorgore fight. Also, looked like by spamming the cast res button as they came to live, a brief res chain took place.

9. The eggs were all broken in about 6 minutes. Took another 5 minutes to kill Razorgore.

10. Looks like Razorgore uses cleave, fire breath in frontal cone, warstomp (ae stun), conflagration, and multi-target fireballs that hit every player in los.

So some good information out of this video, let's start thinking about whether this method is going to work for us as Alliance, and if so, how--are we able to effectively substitute for the Earthbind totems and shaman train leaders? What unique abilities do our paladins bring to the table that we should be thinking about?
     
Elofax
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Holy Assassin of Elune
On the WoW forums: "Funny thing is.We beat Razor before NA put out their kiting video.We thought cool.Lets try that maybe it'll be more consistant.

Come to find out it's a #@%$! to coordinate.Props to them.We went back to our old strat,and actually like it better.A strat Alliance could easily use."

So while we've learned some useful things about the encounter, I think it would be more worthwhile to come up with a different strategy that works better for us than trying to adapt Nightmare Asylum's center-kitefest.
     
Skor_Taran
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NE Hunter 225 FR 300 Enchanter 300 Dragonscale Leatherworker
I _think_ we could make this strat work but it would take a lot of work and a lot of luck. First, we'd have to use hunter skating rinks to slow the kite and that relies on feign death working. Now, I did see a couple hunters feigning on the video, so it can be done, but with that many mobs, it's not good to count on it - it's much more likely to be resisted than successful. Thus, the AOE slow needs to be another ability. IIRC, warriors have an AOE slow though I'm blanking on the name of the ability (Piercing Shout?). As I understand it, however, it's a player-based AOE so the warrior needs to be in the middle of the group and any new additions won't be affected (unlike the hunter skating rink which affects any mob running over it).

Given that we don't have a reliable, easy way to slow like that, I do not think kiting would be a reliably successful strategy for the Alliance. I think we could make it work, but too much of it would rely on luck and I think we need to minimize our reliance on luck as much as possible.

Now, some other observations:

Hunter's Mark. No clue why that was being used. I didn't see any obvious attacks being directed against the targets - the only thing I can think of is they were making the unslept dragons so that druids would have an easier time finding them for sleeping in the massive chaos. Possibly also for the controller as well but I'm not sure if they were bothering with Razor's sleep ability or if they were just focusing on breaking eggs (it certainly appeared they weren't bothering with attacks...).

Razorgore. As I just said, it appears the controller was doing everything to avoid pulling aggro so no attacks at all. Now, I don't know how viable this would be for a non-kiting tactic. After all, pulling aggro onto Razorgore means you don't have aggro on the kite target so that just makes obvious sense for their tactic. Might not be as workable for ours. Anyhow, yes, they did see to start far away and work towards the controlling platform. I think I might know why - I suspect they had their main tank working to protect the controller on the platform (dropping fear or pulling aggro, as needed) but not active in the fight. After all, they don't want their main tank dead once phase 2 begins. Thus, their MT was on the platform. That means, to have the MT as close to Razorgore as possible at the beginning of phase 2 means Razor needs to be near the platform when the final egg is broken. I think there are advantages to starting at either end of the room but I think the key advantage here is having the fight _end_ near the main tank who should be on "protect controller" duty (which should be low risk, hopefully). Regardless, Kie and I seemed to have a great deal of success with running Razorgore to the other side of the room, regardless of where we were, when our control was about to run out. This gave the next person in line plenty of time to gain control before Razorgore got to us. Thus, regardless of where we clear, near the end of the control cycle, the controller MUST move to the opposite side of the room (imho).

Hunters. Feign death was working. Probably a high chance of it being resisted, but they did seem to be using it successfully. We might want to factor that into our plan but _NOT_ rely on it as a lynchpin for success (as I said above, we need to minimize our reliance on luck.

Mob Choice. They did seem to be focused on killing mages, sleeping dragons, and kiting legionnaires. Now, I don't know how much of that we can translate over to a non-kite tactic. After all, killing the mages makes obvious sense - they won't kite - they'll just stand in place and blast (anyone who's attempted to pull a range-attacking foe knows they rarely ever run to you...). Thus, I think that is a choice that is specific to their strategy and doesn't translate over to a non-kite strategy.

Can we mimic what they did? Possibly, with a lot of luck. I think we have some of the abilities we need to mimc what they did but I think too much of it relies heavily on luck and we should avoid that at all costs, imho. I think our strategy might need to rely on something else entirely. I have a suggestion, but I'll make that in another thread.