| Adnar | #321434 Tuesday August 19, 2008 at 18:05 | |
Yes! Uther loves me! (not you) |
A word on judging. I remember raiding before BC where I would really be called out if I didn't have a judgment up on whatever we were fighting. That goes for trash too. The other paladins in the raid could be called out as well. This was after Blizz added more debuff slots btw. That really has not been my experience in BC raiding. I can only name a few times in SSC and other places where if I let wisdom drop I was gently reminded that - OMG I NEED WISDOM!! We have went from assigning what each pally would judge to an almost zero awareness of what seals and judgments bring to the raid and little problem if we let them drop. Not to derail this topic, but I wonder why that is? --
The status is NOT quo. The world is a mess and I just need to rule it. http://silverhandwowgeek.blogspot.com/ |
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| Toragan | #321436 Tuesday August 19, 2008 at 18:15 | |
The not so serious paladin |
quote: Originally posted by Adnar: Not to derail this topic, but I wonder why that is? Part of that is with the smaller raid sizes you don't have class leads along on every raid. A paladin lead would always jump his guys if they slack off but a different class might not even think about it. Plus with more paladins we had a bit more flex with assigning one to keeping stuff up. We also aren't the red headed step childs of raiding so much anymore either. Now with smaller raid sizes we have vital roles we really can't afford to interrupt constantly. Just my thoughts on it.*shrug* --
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| Toragan edited this message on Tuesday August 19, 2008 at 23:34 | ||
| Arkhain | #321449 Tuesday August 19, 2008 at 19:41 | |
this is it for a winner! |
Holy paladins don't judge because chain healing is a lot more important in BC than it is in Vanilla. That said, if you can get them in the habit of judging Wisdom every mob, and every transition, you'll be in the good. If you have a prot paladin, getting them to can help too. A ret paladin needs Windfury. That's about it. Chances are very high that they'll be getting Battle Shout from the DPS warrior who also needs Windfury, and Strength of Earth since you might as well drop that in a melee group. A standard solid melee group is paladin, warrior, shaman, rogue and rogue. Switch out from the right -- a third rogue should be in the hunter group, instead of moving the ret out of the melee group. You can keep up with pure DPSers in early T6 gear. I've topped damage in S3 with a Stormherald, only losing the advantage as every other DPSer got their (better scaling) gears and 4T6 set bonuses. |
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| Kavanagh | #321479 Tuesday August 19, 2008 at 21:52 | |
Truthiness and the American Way |
quote: Originally posted by Andaelas: Todyn made a post farther down in the forum, according to it you're doing over the recommended amount. So, the question is, *why* am I ahead of the curve? I really don't think I'm all that great of a ret paladin. I mean, I run up, whack things, judge when it's up, CS when it's up, and pray for SoC procs. You can check me out in Armory, I guess maybe I'm misjudging where my gear level is, but I don't think I am. --
This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality. Remember, we are eternal. All this pain is an illusion.   |
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| Arkhain | #321486 Tuesday August 19, 2008 at 22:29 | |
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this is it for a winner! |
I still think the numbers on Todyn's post are off. | |
| Andaelas | #321489 Tuesday August 19, 2008 at 22:37 | |
You, Me, Lay on Hands |
quote: Originally posted by Toragan: Part of that is with the smaller raid sizes you don't have class leads along on every raid. Absolutely, I was in a raid where the paladin said: I don't bless mid fight. I never would have let that slide as sub-lead back in the day. They would have had a warning and then if there were other factors wouldn't be slotted in awhile. The -only- thing I miss from the old days is the class leads, as much of a logistical nightmare as blessings and judgements were it made sure ever paladin knew what they were doing and made sure we enforced our own. quote: Originally posted by Kavanagh: I have no idea, your armory lists you as a protadin so I don't know what to look for. --
Caelestis Gloriam |
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| Kavanagh | #321495 Tuesday August 19, 2008 at 23:03 | |
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Truthiness and the American Way |
Damnit, I forgot that I had respecced and logged off in prot gear. >.< I'll have to log on when I can get to a connection and put on ret gear.
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This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality. Remember, we are eternal. All this pain is an illusion. |
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| Arondar | #321824 Thursday August 21, 2008 at 08:37 | |
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< hi > |
quote: Originally posted by Kavanagh: quote: Originally posted by Andaelas: Todyn made a post farther down in the forum, according to it you're doing over the recommended amount. So, the question is, *why* am I ahead of the curve? I really don't think I'm all that great of a ret paladin. I mean, I run up, whack things, judge when it's up, CS when it's up, and pray for SoC procs. You can check me out in Armory, I guess maybe I'm misjudging where my gear level is, but I don't think I am. Because you learned from MEH! |
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| Kavanagh | #321933 Thursday August 21, 2008 at 21:42 | |
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Truthiness and the American Way |
quote: Originally posted by Arondar: Because you learned from MEH! I remember hanging out in IF around the battlemasters next to the paladin in PvP gear with Sulfuras, asking noob questions and complaining about the ST concept being elitist. >.> --
This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality. Remember, we are eternal. All this pain is an illusion. |
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| Paks | #321963 Friday August 22, 2008 at 05:37 | |
YOU'RE RUNNING OUT OF TIME FRUIT VENDOR! |
Prot paladins are the only ones should be blessing mid-fight. Blessing puts out a TREMENDOUS amount of aggro; save it for downtimes and the occasional re-Kings the brez'd healer situation. Judgements aren't paid attention to these days because, honestly, melee aren't going to notice a lack of JoL on the target, their healers don't know better if it is missing, and a lot of Prot Pallies, despite what certain channel trolls seem to think, will judge Wisdom anyhow because Crusader isn't necessary and mana always is. So, you end up with a situation where the only judgement anyone's gonna notice is getting judged anyhow, and nobody else thinks of it. Come Wrath it'll be a bit different, as Holy paladins will want a Seal up for haste effects and will have a 30 yard range on Judgement, so there's no real excuse for them to not be keeping JoL up. Tanks will judge Wisdom because crusader's gone and Light reduces the amount of mana recovery they get from heals. But until then, Wisdom's the only one getting noticed. --
Charter Lead - Maelstrom (Tanks)  |
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| Andaelas | #322214 Saturday August 23, 2008 at 12:58 | |
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You, Me, Lay on Hands |
quote: Originally posted by Paks: Prot paladins are the only ones should be blessing mid-fight. Blessing puts out a TREMENDOUS amount of aggro; save it for downtimes and the occasional re-Kings the brez'd healer situation. I could not disagree more. When the Warlock tank is done tanking he needs Salv, and if you're a Holy paladin who is in charge of salv then it's your job. The only time you should be casting blessings mid fight are for the Brez'd and the casters who are no longer tanking anyway. --
Caelestis Gloriam |
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| Toragan | #322217 Saturday August 23, 2008 at 13:05 | |
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The not so serious paladin |
There are special exceptions but I'm guessing Paks is referring to pallys who let their blessings slack and end up doing a full blessing rotation midfight. I've seen it happen and I normally mention something to a paladin I see doing it.
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| Paks | #322228 Saturday August 23, 2008 at 14:55 | |
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YOU'RE RUNNING OUT OF TIME FRUIT VENDOR! |
What Tora said. And honestly, what difference would it make for a warlock anyhow? They're WARLOCKS, they pull aggro even when they've had salv the entire fight. :) --
Charter Lead - Maelstrom (Tanks) |
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| Arkhain | #322241 Saturday August 23, 2008 at 16:56 | |
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this is it for a winner! |
Buffing doesn't cause huge aggro anymore. They fixed that back in the BWL days. It's still *buff* aggro, but you can't tank with it and it's hardly a worry for anyone. And, seriously, what does it matter for a ret paladin? Ret paladins don't do enough DPS to worry about threat. |
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| Toragan | #322250 Saturday August 23, 2008 at 17:18 | |
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The not so serious paladin |
quote: Originally posted by Arkhain: Buffing doesn't cause huge aggro anymore. They fixed that back in the BWL days. It's still *buff* aggro, but you can't tank with it and it's hardly a worry for anyone. And, seriously, what does it matter for a ret paladin? Ret paladins don't do enough DPS to worry about threat. Because while your buffing your not doing your primary job and your wasting a ton of mana to boot. --
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