| Guthammer | #320506 Thursday August 14, 2008 at 15:54 | |
Shadowguarde Sunder Monkey |
I have WWS for me from an SSC. I just don't seem to see any meaningful numbers to help me get better. The report is here. Is there a way to see my over healing? --
4 70s and counting |
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| mewdied | #320511 Thursday August 14, 2008 at 16:24 | |
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I rolled a 4 on the Bear Mount >< |
Two ways. On the main chart, click on the Heals tab. It will now show a little more information in regards to healing. Second, click on your name. This will bring up a more detailed description of your healing and you can see which heals are overhealing the most. When you drill down on yourself, you can also drill down in each spell and it will show you the average amount healed as well as the max for both regular, and crit heals. |
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| Roberth | #320513 Thursday August 14, 2008 at 16:36 | |
Holy "Diver!" Priest |
Are you Ballif in this report? If so I see your overheal is rather high, but maybe that's normal for Paladins, I dunno. I shoot for a 30% or less overheal myself as I feel any more than that and I'm burning through more mana than I need to. Again, though I don't know Paladin heals so maybe that level of overhealing is expected. Bear in mind WWS reports for healers aren't as definitive as dps reports. There's many things to consider for healing reports as in what sort of healing is required for the fight (AoE vs solo target), what your assignment is (tombs on Fathom Lord for instance), and other things such as this. So...if you're #1 on the healer list or dead last, don't fret overly much - if the boss went down then all's good. I like to look at individual metrics like how many mana pots I use, how many times I had to be healed, how many deaths in the encounter. These tell me better overall how I did. --
Its time to put down the pipe and pick up the PWN!  |
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| Guthammer | #320524 Thursday August 14, 2008 at 17:25 | |
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Shadowguarde Sunder Monkey |
Eirena. Who seems to heal like none of the other priests. Ahh the second part of your answer is quite illuminating. Though its rather like the prot warriors measure their success: Did we loot the boss at the end of the fight. --
4 70s and counting |
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| Roberth | #320584 Thursday August 14, 2008 at 22:48 | |
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Holy "Diver!" Priest |
Ah...I see you're in love with CoH. :D Its a good utility spell I feel but be careful to not overly spam it in encounters. It can quickly drain your mana if you're not careful. Your GH overheals are expected really - considering that you do around 5100 healing with it some overlap will be expected. Your FH though...I'd have to look at my numbers but the overheal there seems rather high. And hey, you beat Felada in healing...that deserves a pat on the back. :D --
Its time to put down the pipe and pick up the PWN! |
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| Ifanora | #320657 Friday August 15, 2008 at 08:31 | |
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Member |
How intresting, I always that my 30% overheal was a terrible thing. So what you are telling me is thats about right? I am sitting at around 2200 + heal so I expected there to be overheal on my end its just 30% seemed so high. Intresting, intresting. --
Kayandra Level 70 - BM Hunter |
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| Zaddy | #320664 Friday August 15, 2008 at 08:43 | |
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Heal Sauce and Assplosions |
In general for healers, the primary measure of healing success should be how many people are still alive at the end of an encounter. It doesn't really matter as much if people are at the top of their healthbars the whole way through. But that's not all, the other thing I measure a healer by is how easy they make it for the other healers and in fact other raid members to do their job. I'll use Naj'entus as an example here. Typically there's a healer assigned to each group. If one of the group healers, or the tank healers aren't keeping people at reasonable levels when the bubble appears, either Naj heals, or another healer has to pick up the slack. Then they run the risk of going OOM before the end of the fight. While the first of these can be measured by WWS, what's the point. It's pretty obvious anyway. The second isn't (and might not be able to without lots of logic) be measured at all. It's an intuitive thing that pretty much needs to be seen. I really, really dislike WWS for a measure of healing. The BEST that I've seen from it is for decursing (though on priests, it doesn't seem to count abolish disease on that, I need to check more). It misses two rather critical healing spells by assigning it to the wrong target. That being Prayer of Mending, and the final tick of LIfebloom. I don't know how much that final tick factors for a Druid, but Prayer of Mending can and has been 30% of my total healing for a raid. That's a lot to miss. (That said, POM tends to be one of my biggest overhealing spells too, but I don't care about that because of the way it works). I also agree with Roberth on the use of CoH. It's a fun spell, and when used right it's massively powerful, a priests second highest HPS spell (after Prayer of Healing, which is limited to your group). But it doesn't take much going wrong to have it become less efficient. WWS Is great for measuring DPS and to a lesser degree dispells. That's about all I'll give it in its current state. It's primarily for DPS. --
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| Maegrette | #320666 Friday August 15, 2008 at 08:48 | |
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Makes the rockin' world go round |
My overheal is usually in the 25-35% range, which is what I've typically seen for other CoH priests. I keep it within a reasonable range by using downranked heals (with >2000 +heal raid buffed, my GH7 tends to be too big on all but the tankiest of tanks) and by using a /stopcasting key to halt a spell if someone else's got there before mine did. But really, overheal isn't that big of a deal these days. With high burst damage from bosses, it's better to err on the side of letting a heal go through. What's important is whether your assigned targets stayed alive and if you had enough mana to do your job. In general, paladins and shaman will have the highest average overheal numbers, priests will be somewhere in the middle, and druids will be lowest. The reason? Extra ticks on HoTs don't show up in the combat log and thus aren't counted. As for overall heal numbers, unless someone is abnormally low, it's not really a good measure of one's heal-peen. Total effective heals will depend on class, healing assignment, time spent dead, latency, healing spells attributed to others (such as Prayer of Mending), cleansing or battle-rez duties, and above all, skill at ninjaing the meters. I find it much more helpful to look at the types of healing spells cast (taking into account the person's healing assignment to determine whether the spells were appropriate) and if a tank died, to look at the actual log to find out what happened and if the healers could have prevented it. --
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| Guthammer | #320676 Friday August 15, 2008 at 09:20 | |
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Shadowguarde Sunder Monkey |
I know, at one point, I was getting some comments that I was going down too easily as a tank Mag's channelers. After much digging, we figured out that the main tank and I were taking about the same damage (in fact I was avoiding a bit more) but that he had around 40% over heal on him and I had about 22% on me. I think 30% is approaching the limit and not have an "oops" mt dead. I only have that one piece of evidence..but it would be something interesting to look at. For this WWS I was grouped with a Shadow Priest and I think I popped one mana pot. And the main challenge I have fast as a priest so for isn't mana conservation, but getting enough healing out on multiple characters fast enough (not that that was really on issue on that WWS either). Gorefiend (having seen him on 2 raids--though one of those was a 3 hour progress night), seems to be one of the toughest things to heal--getting my healing targets in the right order was critical--and I don't see how I could conserve mana on that fight--there wasn't a time I wasn't casting. Maybe I got Eirena to 70 too late in this expansion but what fights are there (or there were) where mana conservation was most important (other than what's his name, who blows you up if you go under xx% mana). And probably only beat because she joined the raid late (as she told us she would). --
4 70s and counting |
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| Zaddy | #320703 Friday August 15, 2008 at 11:16 | |
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Heal Sauce and Assplosions |
quote: Originally posted by Guthammer: I know, at one point, I was getting some comments that I was going down too easily as a tank Mag's channelers. After much digging, we figured out that the main tank and I were taking about the same damage (in fact I was avoiding a bit more) but that he had around 40% over heal on him and I had about 22% on me. I think 30% is approaching the limit and not have an "oops" mt dead. I only have that one piece of evidence..but it would be something interesting to look at. For this WWS I was grouped with a Shadow Priest and I think I popped one mana pot. And the main challenge I have fast as a priest so for isn't mana conservation, but getting enough healing out on multiple characters fast enough (not that that was really on issue on that WWS either). Gorefiend (having seen him on 2 raids--though one of those was a 3 hour progress night), seems to be one of the toughest things to heal--getting my healing targets in the right order was critical--and I don't see how I could conserve mana on that fight--there wasn't a time I wasn't casting. Maybe I got Eirena to 70 too late in this expansion but what fights are there (or there were) where mana conservation was most important (other than what's his name, who blows you up if you go under xx% mana). And probably only beat because she joined the raid late (as she told us she would). Heh, well first, having a shadow priest is a luxury I seldom get :) Enjoy it, but I would honestly work on getting your regen high enough that you don't need it. Mages and other magical DPS (even warlocks) really need them more. As for Mana intensive fights for a healer? Najentus - By far the most healing/mana intensive fight I've ever seen. I find very few opportunities to be outside the 5 second rule here, and I have to take off some of my mana regen gear to be at a more comfortable HP. I like to sit about 10.5k+ with buffs for this fight. My MP5 takes the biggest hit in this gear. Kaz'rogal - As you mentioned before, because of the mana drain Tidewalker, depending upon your healing role, this one can be, or maybe I was doing it wrong Vexallus - In MGT. Especially in Heroic. If this fight isn't executed exactly right, there's a large burden upon the healers. Most other fights, I don't have a problem with mana. My OOFSR regen is reasonably high due to spirit stacking, but it's not that hard to get out of the FSR on most fights. I've also had some issues on SOME trash...(A'lar trash with the mana draining birds, and Sunwell trash has left me tapped a couple times when I wasn't paying enough attention). --
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| Maegrette | #320711 Friday August 15, 2008 at 11:44 | |
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Makes the rockin' world go round |
quote: Originally posted by Guthammer: After much digging, we figured out that the main tank and I were taking about the same damage (in fact I was avoiding a bit more) but that he had around 40% over heal on him and I had about 22% on me. I think 30% is approaching the limit and not have an "oops" mt dead. Overhealing, or not, isn't the cause of tank death. This sounds more like poor healing technique, and overhealing can be a symptom of that. If the healer is waiting for the tank to take damage before starting a heal, the overheal will probably be low, but there's a probability that the tank will be dead before the heal finishes casting. I'm guessing this is what killed you. If the healer simply spams heals nonstop, the overheal will be high, but the tank has a better chance of living through the encounter. However, this style of healing consumes mana rapidly and the healer may run out during the fight. The best technique, for priests at least, is to cast the heal before it becomes needed, then cancel it at the last moment if it's not needed. This takes practice, and works best at very low latency; but if done right, it results in low overheal, mana conservation, AND a tank that stays alive. --
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| Guthammer | #320719 Friday August 15, 2008 at 12:37 | |
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Shadowguarde Sunder Monkey |
Heh I have beaten Nagentus once...I had 8622 hp for that fight. Vex on heroic I have not been able to beat as a healer. Again not because I didn't have mana--but because you have to get your sequence of targets right and pump out a huge amounts of HPS for 15%. And I couldn't seem to get the last part right. Those don't seem like fights where you need to conserve mana. You either need to spend it now, or someone dies. --
4 70s and counting |
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| Xeonio | #320728 Friday August 15, 2008 at 13:15 | |
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Charter Lead: Relentless |
Aye, WWS for healing is rather tough to look at. I'm almost always the only COH priest so I tend to focus on melee where I can spam it for max effect. You really have to take it fight for fight. Someone earlier mentioned they tend to judge healers by how easy they make it on others to do their jobs. That is the best way, hands down, to judge someone elses healing ability. Healy leads I'd say notice it the most since they are healing. You take one of ur regular solid healers and replace them with a temp and notice you are having to cover a lot of extra people. Another problem though is that the healy lead doesn't put you where ur strongest healing. Priests can effectively heal anything... but that doesn't mean that its a strong suit for them. I know I can heal a MT but I find myself wanting to pickup for others slack so I put myself on raid cuz I don't like to see anyone low on life. I'll also put myself on melee group because I'm COH. Mainly if everyone is living in the end and you don't notice urself straining or someone else having to pickup ur slack then ur doin' an ok job. --
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| Zaddy | #320735 Friday August 15, 2008 at 13:47 | |
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Heal Sauce and Assplosions |
quote: Originally posted by Xeonio: Aye, WWS for healing is rather tough to look at. I'm almost always the only COH priest so I tend to focus on melee where I can spam it for max effect. You really have to take it fight for fight. Someone earlier mentioned they tend to judge healers by how easy they make it on others to do their jobs. That is the best way, hands down, to judge someone elses healing ability. Healy leads I'd say notice it the most since they are healing. You take one of ur regular solid healers and replace them with a temp and notice you are having to cover a lot of extra people. Another problem though is that the healy lead doesn't put you where ur strongest healing. Priests can effectively heal anything... but that doesn't mean that its a strong suit for them. I know I can heal a MT but I find myself wanting to pickup for others slack so I put myself on raid cuz I don't like to see anyone low on life. I'll also put myself on melee group because I'm COH. Mainly if everyone is living in the end and you don't notice urself straining or someone else having to pickup ur slack then ur doin' an ok job. Heh, thanks Xeo, it was me that said it. I'd also like to expand a bit on what you said about healing leads placing a healer where they are strongest. On one hand, this isn't necessarily easy to do. Back when I was leading in Gruul, I used to put myself in the hardest spot to heal based upon the given group. Guess what. That was a mistake. It didn't allow me to adapt to other things that might have happened in the encounter, nor did it show me to have trust in my other healers or let them stretch themselves a bit. I wasn't a good teacher. That's part of being a lead. The other side of being put to certain roles, is not to limit yourself to them. If a healer goes down that has a role, it needs to be covered. In Xeo's example of being put on MT healing, when I'm put in that role, with a well geared tank, I'm bored MT healing. So I tend to raid heal at the same time, so long as my mana and the health of the tank permits. I go nuts when I can't reach people to heal and their health is going down. But ultimately, it's fulfill your role, but do whatever else you can to facilitate as well. With regards to the HP cap in the Naj'entus fight, I said initially that I feel more comfortable having 10.5k health. I know you can survive with barely more than 8500. IMHO It makes the margin of error much less to do so. I've seen damage in addition to the bubble popping happen right after the bubble popping. And Naj'entus mana is premium. If you have time to use a downranked GH instead of a flash, that saves you mana. it's absolutely about conservation as well as landing the right spell at the right time. --
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