| Kenshi | #318379 Tuesday August 5, 2008 at 09:18 | |
Way of the Samurai |
I thought this would be a nice spec from looking the talent calculator on WoW's site. http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/paladin/talents2.html?tal=00000000000000000000000000050051335000210252155312321050052002000000000000000000 Is there anything I should change? If so, what? --
Nezchia - 70 Draenei Shaman (Enhancement Goodies) Amidamaru - 70 Draenei Paladin (Protection of you) |
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| Lweien | #318425 Tuesday August 5, 2008 at 11:48 | |
Member |
That looks solid. The only thing I would change would take the points from Vindication and put them into Imp. Devotion. I see Vindication as mainly a PvP talent, and the changes to Improved Devotion make it worth taking. Then again, this is only my opinion. Your milage may vary. --
My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield. While I draw breath, they shall not perish. So long as they live, our enemies will fall. I am defender, protector, guardian. I am a Paladin. |
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| Toragan | #318445 Tuesday August 5, 2008 at 13:22 | |
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The not so serious paladin |
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/paladin/talents2.html?tal=00000000000000000000000000050051335203210202155312321052050002000000000000000000 Is that I'm looking at now. I couldn't pass up Divine Guardian. It's potential utility is huge imo. --
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| StormMaster | #318471 Tuesday August 5, 2008 at 14:20 | |
AP Tank Lead - Dwarven Bomb Squad |
Looking at: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/paladin/talents2.html?tal=00000000000000000000000000050051335000210252155312321050052002000000000000000000 For myself. The points in conviction are switchable to seals of the pure or (unlikely) reckoning, depending on where TPS calculations put the returns of each. With the changes to the STR to BV ratio (and because shield spec is currently not applying to BV from STR) shield spec just didn't seem worth it to me with the other talents I could spend the 8 points in (since redoubt loses effectiveness as your avoidance levels increase (in respect to bosses)) --
Artalis / Khandron - 140 levels of tanking goodness! "All your aggro are belong to US!" |
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| Telumehtar | #318475 Tuesday August 5, 2008 at 14:30 | |
TBD Lead |
I agree with the Divine Guardian utility especially if in an OT position. However I think you are skimping too much on threat generating talents. The big potential waste (and I'll be honest, I'm still debating this heavily) is the 8 points spent in Redoubt, and Shield Specialization. Redoubt has questionable value now, centered mainly for AE fights, and boss fights with rapid attacks. With Holy shield getting 2 extra charges, redoubt becomes even less valuable. Shield Specialization is good, but I'm not sure it's 8 points of goodness, especially considering the changes in ratio for STR->Block Value which makes Divine Strength much more appealing both from a Block Value perspective, as well as threat generation due to AtkPower from STR. The spec I'm looking at is Telumehtar's possible spec That spec grabs most of the Threat generation goodies, still gives me nice avoidance talents like Anticipation and Deflection, and helps my blocking capabilities a ton with talents that are more scalable than Shield Specialization(or in the case of Redoubt, actually has negative scalability) [edit] Looks like Artalis beat me to some of the punch. --
Telumehtar - Protection Paladin of Elune Minueta - Survival Hunter Almagest - Elemental Shaman |
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| Toragan | #318481 Tuesday August 5, 2008 at 14:36 | |
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The not so serious paladin |
I've never had a huge issue with treat without the 5 points in one handed Wep Spec. I prefer taking 2 seconds off my judgment timer. It ends up giving you a much higher threat return than 5% extra damage. Though I may get it after fooling around a bit with things. I'd advise you to pickup Guarded by Light however. With our additional skills we'll be using more mana and cons is one of our biggest spells as tanks...and also our most mana intensive. I'll have to ponder the shield talents. Honestly though I haven't put alot of thought into it all and likely won't till we get a bit closer to Wrath. I've seen Blizzard switch things around to much in the past to get to attached to anything to early. --
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| StormMaster | #318491 Tuesday August 5, 2008 at 15:08 | |
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AP Tank Lead - Dwarven Bomb Squad |
I'm not sure how closely you follow Maintankadin Tora, but the theorycrafting they've done there shows that 1HS is a bit better then Imp Judgement threat wise, in addition to the fact that it doesn't increase your mana usage profile. Sadly, in Wrath, imp judgement gets kicked even harder with the addition of 2 6 second cooldown skills to our rotation plus the fact that judgement now causes a GCD. In all of my new rotation parses, there's no way to maintain the 8 second judgement without bumping one of the 6 second skills (both of which are more mana efficient and currently look to be better threat returns) further down the rotation. I definetly agree about the guarded by the light though. In a max threat rotation, consecrate should still be firing once every 12 seconds or so, and it's a mana hog, so 30% reduction adds up to a considerable mana savings, in addition to being very useful for AE type fights. --
Artalis / Khandron - 140 levels of tanking goodness! "All your aggro are belong to US!" |
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| Telumehtar | #318492 Tuesday August 5, 2008 at 15:11 | |
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TBD Lead |
Well I know on my hunter with Blessing of Salvation, I'm quite often capable of blowing passed Artalis on threat, and he is one of the most threat intensive pallies I know currently. In Wrath, passive threat reduction buffs like Blessing of Salv will no longer be available, which means tanks will be expected to generate even more threat if they hope to keep the likes of AP's DPSers off their back. It's not true in every fight, but even with some very skillful tanks currently in AP, our DPS is fighting the glass ceiling of threat capping on a regular basis now in various boss encounters, and even somewhat on trash. Even with active threat sinks like Feign Death, we are finding ourselves threat capped in several encounters throughout BT, and despite threat being worked into the normalization of tanking abilities in Wrath, I have serious concerns with fighting threat capping from tanks with lower/fewer aggro generating abilities. Sorry but when I'm playing my DPS classes, I will always be in the trade channel asking "WTB more threat for my tank". --
Telumehtar - Protection Paladin of Elune Minueta - Survival Hunter Almagest - Elemental Shaman |
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| Telumehtar | #318493 Tuesday August 5, 2008 at 15:13 | |
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TBD Lead |
Bleh... Judgement is on the GCD now? Well that may free up two points for me slimming down the Ret tree somewhat. I can dump those back in to Prot somewhere.... perhaps into Guarded by the Light
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Telumehtar - Protection Paladin of Elune Minueta - Survival Hunter Almagest - Elemental Shaman |
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| Eitan | #318499 Tuesday August 5, 2008 at 15:29 | |
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Member |
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/paladin/talents2.html?tal=02000000000000000000000000050050335003210252155312321050050000000000000000000000 probably | |
| Toragan | #318501 Tuesday August 5, 2008 at 15:37 | |
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The not so serious paladin |
quote: Originally posted by StormMaster: I'm not sure how closely you follow Maintankadin Tora, but the theorycrafting they've done there shows that 1HS is a bit better then Imp Judgement threat wise, in addition to the fact that it doesn't increase your mana usage profile. Sadly, in Wrath, imp judgement gets kicked even harder with the addition of 2 6 second cooldown skills to our rotation plus the fact that judgement now causes a GCD. In all of my new rotation parses, there's no way to maintain the 8 second judgement without bumping one of the 6 second skills (both of which are more mana efficient and currently look to be better threat returns) further down the rotation. I definetly agree about the guarded by the light though. In a max threat rotation, consecrate should still be firing once every 12 seconds or so, and it's a mana hog, so 30% reduction adds up to a considerable mana savings, in addition to being very useful for AE type fights. Not much of a theory-crafter honestly. I just go with what works for me and I manage to do a decent job of it.=) You bring out a good point about judgment in Wrath however so I'll likely tweak things a bit later. --
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| StormMaster | #318512 Tuesday August 5, 2008 at 15:57 | |
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AP Tank Lead - Dwarven Bomb Squad |
I'm not a big believer that the prot tree is overly bloated, I think, for once, they're finally putting in some hard choices for us, and I think it'll provide alot of options as far as what people choose to do and emphasize in our builds :) Not having everyone running the same (or close to it) cookier cutter build is a good thing in my opinion *grin* Even though at times I'd like to be able to grab everything under the sun. --
Artalis / Khandron - 140 levels of tanking goodness! "All your aggro are belong to US!" |
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| Toragan | #318515 Tuesday August 5, 2008 at 16:07 | |
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The not so serious paladin |
Oh I agree 100% with that Art.
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| Lenevi | #318523 Tuesday August 5, 2008 at 16:37 | |
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Member |
isn't the fact that judgments is on the gcd now made up by not having to cast another seal on yourself? I was under the impression that judging then putting seal of vengeance (or whatever your running) back up took one GCD. With the changes to the whole seal/judge mechanics I don't think its an increase to the number of gcds you have to use (other then real sealing yourself ever 2 mins). | |
| StormMaster | #318525 Tuesday August 5, 2008 at 16:42 | |
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AP Tank Lead - Dwarven Bomb Squad |
No, the primary villain in the killing of the imp judge for protadins are our new shiny aggro toys, Hammer of the Righteous and Shield of Righteousness. With 6 second cooldowns a piece (and low costs, relatively high damage and great aggro) it's hard to justify pushing one of them back in a rotation to squeeze in an extra judgement (especially if not doing that will give better aggro and another 2 free talent points to use in our many other useful talents). Imp judge strikes me as more of a retadin talent now, since with judgements of the wise, it will nicely increase the speed at which their mana return procs. --
Artalis / Khandron - 140 levels of tanking goodness! "All your aggro are belong to US!" |
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