| Redfang | » #316235 Monday July 28, 2008 at 18:29 | |
aka Elkheart, aka Challice |
Which fight, in your estimation, is tougher? Vashj, or Kael? I understand they're both nasty. That's not what I'm asking. ;) Bottom line, which is worse? |
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| Iristhyr | » #316240 Monday July 28, 2008 at 18:54 | |
ex LOL Smite extrodinair |
Kael.
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"Aggro," losely translated, it means "the priest dies."  |
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| dagris | » #316244 Monday July 28, 2008 at 19:21 | |
Member |
Vash is easier gear wise, less forgiving execution wise and much less consistently repeatable. I dreaded VashJ more then Kael | |
| Prysm | » #316261 Monday July 28, 2008 at 20:47 | |
Healz 4 Sparklz |
Kael is harder --
 Mazzie, Holy Priest Cake, Holy Paladin |
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| StormMaster | » #316267 Monday July 28, 2008 at 21:03 | |
AP Tank Lead - Dwarven Bomb Squad |
Kael is more difficult in just about every measure I've found. Once AP had Vashj down, we didn't miss a kill on her, had some rough weeks, but always got her down. Kael has blanked us 3 times out of 11 raids on him (since the first kill), higher then any other boss in the game (for us so far). Just alot of moving pieces on that one ;)
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Artalis / Khandron - 150 levels of tanking goodness! "All your aggro are belong to US!" http://www.risingstormtales.com - Go go gadget writing career! |
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| Jnxie | » #316273 Monday July 28, 2008 at 21:27 | |
AP Healy Lead |
Definatly imo Kael. Vashj once we got her down, was easysauce.
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| Ornalis | » #316334 Tuesday July 29, 2008 at 07:41 | |
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TBD Charter Lead |
I'd definitely agree on Kael, even before they apparently bugged his pyroblast. Did that ever get fixed, the bit where he wouldn't pyroblast the tank and would instead pick someone at random? --
Ornalis Tuolli - 80 Human Demonologist Warlock Omethelon - 80 Space Paladin (Prot/Ret) Winds of Wrath |
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| Sorronn | » #316338 Tuesday July 29, 2008 at 07:54 | |
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Charter Lead: AP/TBD |
I'll agree - Kael is harder. Vashj is 3 phases and conceptually simple. It just takes some practice in throwing Tainted Cores along the chain. Once people practice that, and once you have a stairs team that can control the elemental flow, you're almost home. The only other tough part of Vashj is phase 3, which is basically a DPS race and your raid either has it or it doesn't have it. Kael, on the other hand, has lots of moving parts in that fight, 5 distinct and very different phases, positioning problems, legendary weapon looting and switching issues, role assignments that change per phase, and multiple DPS races at different points in the fight. Phases 2 and 3 are races to down that phase against the clock, while phase 4 is a race against Kael's shield versus his casting speed over and over until you can shove him into phase 5. Even before I was a lead with AP, once we had downed Vashj a few times, I hardly ever worried about downing Vashj regardless of who got slotted. But as Art can tell you, I fret lots now about who is there for Kael just because he is a raving lunatic of a fight. --
Leftovers - Killing raid bosses and raid guilds since May, 2005 |
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| Alaunt | » #316342 Tuesday July 29, 2008 at 07:59 | |
Member |
quote: Originally posted by Ornalis: I'd definitely agree on Kael, even before they apparently bugged his pyroblast. Did that ever get fixed, the bit where he wouldn't pyroblast the tank and would instead pick someone at random? Nope, happened again to us last night. |
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| Alisia | » #316352 Tuesday July 29, 2008 at 08:27 | |
Now with 100% more height |
It still feels that Kael to learn is harder than Illidan. Flat out. I mean any fight with massive coordination is hard. But Illidan is more of an exercise in spreading out. Phase 3 of Kael'thas... you have to be dpsing down all the advisors, and until you get Thaladred down everyone has to be aware where he is, where they are, and how they need to move to be able to get away from him. Then there's phoenix avoidance, egg dpsing, combined with flamestrike and mind control. Oh and then there's the spreading out in gravity lapse (though the heroic version is harder with the orbs). --
Ghostcrawler: "Rogue talents are hard because the class is ultimately very mathy." Ghostcrawler is secretly Barbie? |
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| sigsegv | » #316414 Tuesday July 29, 2008 at 11:44 | |
Veteran of the Psychic Wars |
I am more comfortable with Kael, because I know if the shit hits the fan we can pull it out as long as we make p5. With vashj, so many things can go wrong in p2, and then p3 is impossible to slowdps down if something went wrong along the way. Kael is the more intricate fight however with 5 phases and 4 subbosses you have to fight twice, not to mention the weapons.
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My other car is a cdr. |
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| Alinna | » #316489 Tuesday July 29, 2008 at 15:32 | |
Scout |
I think Vashj is harder. No room for mistakes, constant stream of enemies incoming, kiting super-fear things around in circles right next to healers manning generators. Kael is easier because you can sort of take breaks, melee gets a breather on Capernian, everyone gets to relax a bit during gravity lapse. --
 Signature image and avatar both done by Khaira. Thanks Khaira! |
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| Arkhain | » #316494 Tuesday July 29, 2008 at 15:38 | |
ne cede malis |
Kael is harder than Illidan.
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| Flufkin | » #316513 Tuesday July 29, 2008 at 16:29 | |
Chaotic Good in a tiny, pointy package |
Kael is harder, IMO. The hard part about Vashj is learning it, and making sure your people are all competent at their jobs.... and that means everyone has to be doing their jobs. If you have a group that can do their jobs, know how to handle cores, and a few key players(like strider kiters and naga tanks) who can pick up the "I will eat healers" mobs quickly and control them... then you'll have enough people staying alive to P3 and no problem. KT on the other hand, while it does have nice breaks for melee or mana regen.. etc. etc... seems like it takes a lot more orchestration around positioning, people being aware and reactive to what is happening, quickly getting the MC'd folks broken in P4, people being able to flow and coordinate efforts. For instance, you need to stagger healers grabbing their maces during the weapon phase (so they don't all go at once and every tank drops dead), and might have a couple of melee grab maces, trade to healers, you have to spread around certain buffs, like the staff buff, to tanks or whatnot - plus keeping an eye on Thaladred during P3....then there's the phoenixes, the eggs, the pyroblasts that need to interrupted, and you could very well have an egg up, pyroblast casting, and mind controls running around at the same time.... well... you get the idea. Neither one are to be taken lightly, of course, but once a group really learns Vashj, I think you'll be okay. Kael can still be a bastard, though. --
 ~~ the emotional tylopod asks you to stop ~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~ http://xkcd.com/386/ ~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~and~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~ http://xkcd.com/525/ ~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
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| Kavanagh | » #316608 Tuesday July 29, 2008 at 22:52 | |
Truthiness and the American Way |
I think Kael is the tougher fight. So many groups just kill him a couple of times, then say "eff this" and go for T6. Which I don't blame them for.
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Tyria's a dude!? |
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