| Todyn | #312980 Thursday July 17, 2008 at 06:17 | |
Member |
For quick information here are some basic info for Retribution Paladins: Stat Priority: Hit till maxed > Expertise > Str > AP > Crit > Armor Penetration > Haste This is only for Alliance Retadins, as our only real damage seal is Seal of Command. Reason: If the paladin is not hit capped, then they are several gimping their DPS each time they miss, because they only swing X number of times a minute. Expertise is in the same court because we cannot afford to have our attacks parried or blocked. Str and AP kind of go hand in hand, we want to hit as hard as possible, Fyi: 95 Hit rating is needed to cap it with 3/3 precision, whereas I believe we also need 44 Expertise to be expertise capped. Generally Str > AP, because of 5/5 Divine Strength, meaning a Retadin gets 2.2 AP per Str, (even more with Blessing of Kings :)) Gear Issues: The Retribution Paladin is EXTREMELY EXTREMELY Gear dependent, luckily so much of their equipment can be attained outside of raids (season 3 and crafted items are my best friend). Build: 5/8/48 is pretty much the cookie build for a PvE Retadin http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/paladin/talents.html?tal=5000000000000000000005310000000000000000005023015130033125331051 Is the build that I currently use on Todyn. It maximizes my damage output and group buffs. Why no Benediction - I'll get plenty of mana back via Sanctified Judgements that Benediction's overall benefits are greatly reduced. Having 3 points into Sanctified Judgement nets better mana conservation than 5/5 Benediction. 3/3 Pursuit? Mobility is key for a melee DPSer', a lot of fights require running around, and less time spent running is more time spent hitting the mob. Why Bring a Retribution Paladin: A DPSer A cleanse A BoP 3% Crit to entire Raid 2% more damage to his group Extra Pally Blessing. DPS: I do have to admit it here, Retribution Paladins will and should never top the damage charts, but we can still do very very respectable damage. In my few experiences raiding TK/SSC as a Retribution Paladin, I often place between 6th and 9th in terms of overall damage done. You bring a Retadin for his extra utility and he will justify his position by contributing with his DPS. That said: Some quick goals for Retadins Min stats for Kara: 1500 AP 25% Crit Hit capped or very close to it. SSC/TK: 1800 AP 27 - 28% Crit Hit capped, some Expertise Begin to acquire Armor Pen or Haste Hyjal/BT: 2000 AP 30% Crit Hit capped, 10 to 15 Expertise Some Armor Pen/Haste Again, these stats are ideal so, of course you can be much lower than the suggested stats, the only reason why I have a high standard is that many people still have a prejudice against Ret Paladin DPS, and I am personally trying to prove them wrong :) Again, these stats are a bit higher for their content. Gear shouldn't be a huge issue with badge gear, pvp gear and crafted items, but again it is up to each individual Retadin. Group Composition: I do have this one pet peeve of mine: Please dont stick your Retadin in your Prot pally's group, you are severely gimping his DPS by doing so. *Edit, if you REALLY really need to help out your prot pally on threat, sure go ahead and toss them with a Retadin, just know that you are gimping the Retadin's DPS.* If you Prot pallies out there really want a threat boost, throw a Resto Shaman in your group and have him/her drop Wrath of Air :) The Paladin pretty much needs to be in the Melee group to do respectable DPS. Ideally your melee group will be: Rogue Rogue Enhance Shaman Fury Warrior Retadin Windfury accounts for about 100 to 200 of my personal DPS. What you can expect a Retadin to do in terms of DPS: Kara: My feeling is you can expect 500 to 600. SSC/TK: 700 to 800 Hyjal/BT: 1000 to 1200 The greatest leap for the Retadin is from T5 to T6 content imo, that is where we are almost fully hit and expertise capped and can really open up on a mob. That is also where we can acquire our final weapons (Yay for Cat's Edge or Torch). Retadins are extremely gear dependent and require precision to play well, but they do bring a lot of benefits to the raid. Please feel free to PM in game if you have any questions regarding Retadins in general. Anyways my toons: Todyn Malarus |
|
| Todyn | #312981 Thursday July 17, 2008 at 06:21 | |
|
Member |
Links for Ret Pallies: The Retributer's Path Part 1: A Guide to Gearing and Playing Ret http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=104544938&sid=1 Part 2: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=106734739&sid=1 Part 3: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=4311146681&sid=1 Ret in Raids - Just Copy and Paste to Guild http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2856006734&sid=1&pageNo=1 Cromfel, The Retribution Paladin Hideout - Dedicated Ret website http://cromfel.battlefield.fi/ Ret Paladin - Dedicated Ret website http://www.retpaladin.com PvE Ret Paladin DPS Guide http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=4071472637&sid=1&pageNo=1 |
|
| Cuchulain | #313047 Thursday July 17, 2008 at 09:39 | |
Da Cuch is burning! |
Yah, I want to go back to ret. I actually used to do a fair amount of damage back in the day. thanks for da posting. Time to figure out my new gears to pick up!
--
"release the penguins" -Faerie's Aire and Death Waltz |
|
| Dorric | #322267 Saturday August 23, 2008 at 19:16 | |
|
Member |
I constantly use one site to get all my gear info for ret paladins and that is: http://www.maxdps.com That being said, I think the minimum stats listed here for various areas are a little excessive. Maybe it is just me, but I have done my best to get well, the best crafted gear I can obtain such as Furious Gizmatic Goggles Cloak of Eternal Darkness Black Felsteel Bracers Red Belt of Battle The rest of my epic gear has been pulled from various raids, or from using badges, and they are gemmed with the best blue gems for those sockets (if there is a socket bonus worth having) otherwise its just simple +8 strength gems. Given some of my gear isn't epic just yet (chest, legs and 1 ring) so maybe that will change once I upgrade them to T4 and enchant them, but as it stands I am barely pushing past 1500 AP and 23% crit. Is it just me, or has the availability of the new badge gear bumped up the minimum stats for these raids? More importantly, if it has... why? Because I really just cannot seem to fathom the fact that I need that much to get into these raids, especially the armor pen/haste for SSC/TK, it wasn't there before badge gear and now its a requirement to get in? It just confuses me to no end. |
|
| Dorric edited this message on Saturday August 23, 2008 at 19:28 | ||
| Andaelas | #322291 Saturday August 23, 2008 at 22:45 | |
You, Me, Lay on Hands |
The availability of higher gear has pushed up the "minimum", but not for the reasons we may be thinking. A) Raid leaders expect more, they can only take 25 people and they would prefer the best when pushing unmastered content. That usually means the best gear and the best attitudes. Therefor people need to "push it to the limit" to get noticed and remain slotted and be known as "good" in their role. B) We expect more out of ourselves. self explanatory I think. C) Older content is no longer devoted resources at Blizzard. Why is the Supremus fight hard? because he glitchs. Same with Kael, you can have a perfect fight and he can glitch and dump all aggro on the MT. In addition, really, really hard fights (like Archimonde, etc) who have mechanics in them that don't depend on DPS, they depend on your ability to move out of fires and not have Lag will always be hard. The better gear only makes these fights that much more frustrating. --
Caelestis Gloriam |
|
| Arkhain | #322298 Saturday August 23, 2008 at 23:21 | |
this is it for a winner! |
The minimum numbers and minimum DPS are very broad guidelines at best. Gear yourself with the right stats, and get the best gear you can. MaxDPS has many mechanical errors putting the DPS numbers off, but its item suggestion can be helpful at-a-glance. |
|
| Todyn | #322301 Saturday August 23, 2008 at 23:39 | |
|
Member |
quote: Originally posted by Arkhain: The minimum numbers and minimum DPS are very broad guidelines at best. Gear yourself with the right stats, and get the best gear you can. MaxDPS has many mechanical errors putting the DPS numbers off, but its item suggestion can be helpful at-a-glance. Agreed. They are VERY rough guidelines at best. |
|
| Dorric | #322303 Saturday August 23, 2008 at 23:55 | |
|
Member |
Well generally speaking, you can see my armory profile here: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Silver+Hand&n=Karnwield Basically for those that don't want to look at the armory, or can't get it to work, my items are. Head: Furious Gizmatic Goggles - Glyph of Feroicity - Relentless Earthstorm Diamond - Bold Living Ruby Neck: Shattered Sun Pendant of Might (Scryer) Shoulder: Shoulderplates of Everlasting Pain - Rigid Dawnstone - Sovereign Nightseye Back: Cloak of Eternal Darkness - +12 Agility - Bold Living Ruby Chest: Crusader's Scaled Chestpiece (Problem Item No. 1) - 3x Bold Blood Garnet Wrist: Black Felsteel Bracers - +12 Strength Hands: Justicar Gauntlets - +15 Strength Waist: Red Belt of Battle - Sovereign Nightseye - Rigid Dawnstone Legs: Crusader's Scaled Legguards (Problem item No. 2) Feet: Ironstriders of Urgency - Bold Living Ruby - Rigid Dawnstone Rings: Heavy Felsteel Ring (Problem Item No. 3), Violet Signet DPS Ring Trinkets: Commendation of Kael'Thas, Skyguard Silver Cross Libram: Libram of Divine Judgement Weapon: Hammer of the Naaru - 2x Bold Living Ruby - 1x Glinting Noble Topaz (May be changed to another Rigid Dawnstone) ---- All that gear gives me the following stats - 655 STR 1654 AP 96 HR 23.34% Crit I understand that being the best you can be for the raid is important, but is having an entire set of gear, that can be compared to early MH/BT items a requirement for the earlier tiers? I find it hard to believe at this point that this is true, although I might be wrong. I guess what I am asking for is a more realistic set of numbers for requirements, I am talking about a true bare minimum and then perhaps a optimal rating and maybe one above that. From what I see now, these numbers are pushing over the optimal numbers a fair bit. EDIT ---- Replaced my Violet Signet Healing Ring with the DPS ring, which boosted my hit rating up to 96 and my AP up to 1654. |
|
| Dorric edited this message on Sunday August 24, 2008 at 03:08 | ||
| Kavanagh | #322314 Sunday August 24, 2008 at 01:05 | |
Truthiness and the American Way |
I am in a mixture of T4, T5, and T4/T5 quality gear, and my ret paladin is ready for SSC/TK. He puts out 800-900 DPS on Gruul (the boss, not the instance), and to be honest, trash DPS doesn't matter a whole lot. What matters is the bosses.
--
This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality. Remember, we are eternal. All this pain is an illusion.   |
|
| Dorric | #322318 Sunday August 24, 2008 at 01:56 | |
|
Member |
I've actually heard that pre-SSC/TK (as in ready for those instances) it is best to stack higher strength and AP, sacrificing crit to start with, but obviously replacing items as you progress so that crit becomes more important in the later tiers. Can anyone confirm or deny that? At the moment it seems that stacking AP and strength is the way to go early on (I personally hate relying on crits that much, but considering that I need to crit for vengeance to start working, I expect it is a requirement to an extent) and when the gear starts to focus more on crit and higher strength values, replacing the basic AP gear. |
|
| Arkhain | #322322 Sunday August 24, 2008 at 03:48 | |
|
this is it for a winner! |
Always stack AP, at any level of gearing, over crit. Take crit as it comes. A low minimum of 20, 25-ish crit is all you *need*. Judgement with Fanaticism is enough to keep Vengeance up. As far as the required numbers list, it's high. If you have those numbers, you will do just fine in that level of content. It's not entry numbers. |
|
| Dorric | #322328 Sunday August 24, 2008 at 05:50 | |
|
Member |
Excellent, well as of about an hour ago now, I am hit capped for raids (sitting at 96 with current gear and the violet eye DPS ring) and I have just over 1600 AP unbuffed, so I am happy to say that I am almost ready (if not already ready) to raid in SSC/TK and ZA, now its just a matter of finding a charter than runs a good time for me :P | |
| Viggen | #322381 Sunday August 24, 2008 at 12:26 | |
What's a Nerubian? |
Todyn, thanks very much for collecting and posting this info. As someone who plays a retadin only occasionally, I don't sift through the retribution lore as much as that of my other classes. :) --
      |
|
| Toragan | #322401 Sunday August 24, 2008 at 13:38 | |
|
The not so serious paladin |
Yep stickied it. I must have missed it first time around for whatever reason but there's alot of good info and advice in this thread.
--
 |
|
| Arkhain | #322920 Tuesday August 26, 2008 at 13:40 | |
|
this is it for a winner! |
0 / 5 / 56, dropping 1 point from Righteous Vengeance. I'm going to have to regem pretty harshly to get hit capped again without Precision. Damn you, Sunwell gear, for having no +hit. |
|