| Aorn | #310029 Friday July 4, 2008 at 04:35 | |
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Well, I dunno what policy is or anything, but these are posted over on EJ, so that's good enough for me. If folks wanna haul these down that's cool too. http://war-tools.darlinganime.com/?t=shaman Link Thoughts? Color me unimpressed. Lots of pvp application, which would be awesome if pvp wasn't my second focus for Glacial. I dunno. I just see the balance druid changes, and elemental... gets thunder? I mean... yuck. I cannot imagine how I'm going to spec at 80. I think it really depends on Lava Burst and whether or not it seems shamans turn into a 20 yard range caster (Burst is only 20 yards and isn't affected by storm reach) But! Discuss! All the trees, but discuss nonetheless! <3 Glacial Edit: Astral shift is obviously the answer to the "Melee smashing the elemental in pvp, and hopefully it will obviously ignore resilience. Combine that with thunder and "Hopefully" an upgraded version of SE&F (The earth shock range is spot on, making it 31 yards with the pvp gloves, but the frost shock buff is lackluster for 5 points, and does anyone use more then rank 1 flame shock on rogues anyways? I guess now we will >_> Especially with Lava Burst) Ok. So I'm happy suddenly I'll be able to pvp on Glacial and not feel like I'm gimping a team anymore in arena's >_>. But I dunno if I'm sold yet on pve application --
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| Jnxie | #310049 Friday July 4, 2008 at 07:34 | |
AP Healy Lead |
Here is what my build will likely be once WoTLK comes out. While I am not looking forward to leveling another 10 levels the new content and new talents will be fun to play with. The PvP stuff doesn't really excite me since I don't really have time to pvp anymore (I raid too much lol) I do like the idea of Ancestrial Awakening, a free heal that choses the person who needs it most is always a good thing. Also like Spirit Link I can see in instances of raid wide damage it could come in handy. Cast it on the lowest health person to more easily keep up with healing them. Not sure how I feel about combined totems. Any thoughts or insite on those? Hex will be nice though :) (i may pvp just to turn horde into frogs lol) Ohhh and Earthliving weapon looks cool, using less mana oil for the win. One thing I really would have liked to see didn't happen (An aggro dump, or even reduction) *cries* http://war-tools.darlinganime.com/index.php?t=shaman.8472&b=9z033y55235031355310501022331151 --
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| Kinzy | #310052 Friday July 4, 2008 at 07:50 | |
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Improved reincarnation is nice, but not worth the loss of two points. My hordie will be http://war-tools.darlinganime.com/index.php?t=shaman.8472&b=9z033y55035301355310501122331251 --
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| Brogdan | #310067 Friday July 4, 2008 at 09:30 | |
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Not going to the improved cleansing talent on Anna? Curse, Poison and Disease in one spell is nice, even if the mana cost is a little high.
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 Apparently I like the middle talent tree.  |
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| Jnxie | #310091 Friday July 4, 2008 at 11:57 | |
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AP Healy Lead |
ya the cost is what turned me off to it would be something can only afford to use once in a fight. Plus i cleans disease and poison. I'll leave decursing to the mages i think. as far as improved reincarnation, i cannot tell you how many times i have popped up during a raid and saved the fight. Laying there dead and unable to help drives me insane. LOL So I will be keeping that for sure. --
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| Kinzy | #310098 Friday July 4, 2008 at 12:57 | |
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quote: Originally posted by Jnxie: ya the cost is what turned me off to it would be something can only afford to use once in a fight. Plus i cleans disease and poison. I'll leave decursing to the mages i think. as far as improved reincarnation, i cannot tell you how many times i have popped up during a raid and saved the fight. Laying there dead and unable to help drives me insane. LOL So I will be keeping that for sure. 6% of BASE mana. Cure poison/disease are 7% of BASE mana. Thats not only a huge buff to the class dispel mechanics, but a decrease to the cost too. Base mana is your mana when nekkid and unbuffed. If you have 4k base it's 240 mana, as opposed to 280 for cure poison/disease. Also I find it a bit hard to find a support class scoffing at being granted access to a dispel formerly limited to two classes. Blizz isn't usually so friendly with buffs. Imagine the ease of Archimonde if three classes could dispel. Kinzy may be feral, but I throw on healing gear and HOT/decurse that whole fight. Reincarnation is like Soulstone and DI. It should be used as wipe recovery or when the raid leader calls for it. As far as skipping a point in Imp. Earth Shield, 5% is also a huge boost to earth shield, and that one extra charge per shield could well be what saves the raid. --
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| StormMaster | #310119 Friday July 4, 2008 at 15:13 | |
AP Tank Lead - Dwarven Bomb Squad |
Other talent points aside, I can attest to Anna's skillful use of reincarnation saving the raid on more then one occasion (and yes, I am said raid leader ;p ) While it isn't always a guaranteed thing, it can be extremely useful when used at the proper time. --
Artalis / Khandron - 140 levels of tanking goodness! "All your aggro are belong to US!" |
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| Jnxie | #310122 Friday July 4, 2008 at 15:24 | |
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AP Healy Lead |
For my personal spec, I rather use the 2 points on reincarnation. No one is scoffing at anything is just atm what my choice will be. Doesn't mean this won't change at some point. As far as my use of reincarnation..Art is my lead and I am healer lead so ya tyically i don't use any of our resto shamans reincarnation as a raid wipe recovery. Enhans, elem sure but typically we save resto shammy reincarns for saving of raids arses. With SS's, DI's and non-resto shammy antiwipe devices available, is my opionion reincarnation for resto should be used to get the healer back up and into play IF it looks like the fight is salvagable. The earthsheild point was the hardest decision actually. might play around with it some more for that...but I still think one less point in ES<Dead healer. That isn't to say i might find something else i am willing to sacrifice. /ponders --
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| Kinzy | #310138 Friday July 4, 2008 at 16:45 | |
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My point has been missed completely. The new spell is cheaper, and cures three debuffs, for the cost of one talent point. Skip a point in threat reduction. The point is, healing before BC was about numbers only. From BC on, especially T6 on it has been about utility. Having more utility is worth losing a point in totemic focus, healing grace, elemental fields, or any of the subpar talents blizz has endowed every class with. Call it what you will, but it's like a prot warrior skipping shield slam or a healadin skipping BoK. I think the topic derailed with the improved reincarnation discussion. The point is there are many talents that are subpar, but if this one goes through to live, it won't be. --
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| Kinzy edited this message on Friday July 4, 2008 at 17:52 | ||
| Kinzy | #310142 Friday July 4, 2008 at 16:52 | |
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quote: Originally posted by Jnxie: ya the cost is what turned me off to it would be something can only afford to use once in a fight. Plus i cleans disease and poison. I'll leave decursing to the mages i think. Also missed was where you said the cost is what turned you off. I'm not here to cause issues. I wanted to point out that you missed the BASE mana cost, and that this was cheaper than either cure disease or poison. I'm not stepping on your charter's accomplishments or on your personal use of whatever spells/abilities. I'm pointing out to you and others who are misinterpreting and misunderstanding the cost of the spell. It's cheaper, and does more. The end. --
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| Jnxie | #310163 Friday July 4, 2008 at 19:24 | |
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AP Healy Lead |
aye and is a good point. I honestly thought of it as more then that and I appreciate the explanation of the actual mana cost. I suppose my biggest beef with healing is I never seem to have enough mana. I am hesitant to take on anything that may infringe on my mana pool. /sigh maybe back to the drawing board as far as the cleansing. I must admit though the thought of another responcibility is a double edged sword. Is great to be able to do so when yo see the curse up and wish you could cleanse it. Eh, who knows ATM is speculation on new builds by time I level to 80 I could be Enhansment :P (J/k dont shoot me) <3 --
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| Kinzy | #310164 Friday July 4, 2008 at 19:33 | |
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quote: Originally posted by Jnxie: aye and is a good point. I honestly thought of it as more then that and I appreciate the explanation of the actual mana cost. I suppose my biggest beef with healing is I never seem to have enough mana. I am hesitant to take on anything that may infringe on my mana pool. /sigh maybe back to the drawing board as far as the cleansing. I must admit though the thought of another responcibility is a double edged sword. Is great to be able to do so when yo see the curse up and wish you could cleanse it. Eh, who knows ATM is speculation on new builds by time I level to 80 I could be Enhansment :P (J/k dont shoot me) <3 ROFL, it's true, sad but true --
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| Kavanagh | #310175 Friday July 4, 2008 at 21:10 | |
Truthiness and the American Way |
Well, if it works like the totems normally do, you'd only have to put it down once every 2 minutes. It's always a good idea, no matter what spec you are, to put down as many beneficial totems as possible during any given situation. I feel you on the whole healing thing though. Shamans are very utility based, but not overly mana efficient. Every little bit counts. For enhancement, I just pop shamanistic rage and bam, full mana. :) --
This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality. Remember, we are eternal. All this pain is an illusion.   |
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| Laminor | #310191 Friday July 4, 2008 at 23:34 | |
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First LO Shaman to 70 |
Healing as a shaman isn't that bad in efficiency in the high end. AT first its a bit low, but when you get T6 (even just 2pc, but 4 is good too) the CH Badge totem and just keeping up water shield, you can spam max rank CH for a decent time period. However, max rank is rarely needed and downranking to rank 4 makes its a 20% mana redux for a 10% healing loss (which is further reduced by T6 Bonuses/Badge Totem, and the healing loss is made up by the other T6 bonus). On topic with talents though, I'll give my brief summary of what is to come (in my opinion) if these stick. Elemental: It will die in PvE. Period. MAYBE you might want one for raid wide totem of wrath, but honestly, you'd be better off getting another enhance shaman. They aren't scaling like the other casters, they are not gaining any raid utility, and their sorry excuse for final talents lowers DPS, not ups it. Working FS into your rotation lowers your overall DPS even if it did 100% more damage on its DoT ticks, Lava Burst might put it back up to normal, but is still no reason to take Storm/Earth/Fire. Thunder is purely a PvP tool. If you use Thunder in a raiding environment in an AOE situation, you'd be screwing the other AoEers due to knowing the mobs back (and out of their AoE). Likely getting people killed as well. However, one of the patch notes in the latest Alpha build does say "Elemental Shaman are currently being tested". It doesn't say that for any other class/spec, so it leads me to believe that someone at Blizzard knows the tree currently blows ass chunks. Restoration: With the change the other healers are gaining, resto will be less "Omg Spam Chain Heal!" and a lot more MT healing. HW Crits auto healing someone else low (with the same AI as chain) encourages a resto shaman to be MT healing and they would still be spot healing indirectly. It also encourages them to stack +crit much like paladins do. Ancestral Fort + Tidal Wave + Tidal Mastery + Healing Way + Blessing of Eternals + Ancestral Awakening all scream: I will crit heal with HW all the time for MASSIVE amounts. Please put me on the main tank and I will easily perform the job as well as any other healer, however at the same time I'll be spot healing too. Hell, spirit link is like the ghetto version of power word shield even. The first rank of it currently splits more damage than PWS absorbs on a Sunwell Geared priest. Granted its only splitting damage, not getting rid of it entirely, but it more than does the job of keeping the tank alive. I welcome this change because it encourages thinking (gasp!) as BC shaman currently spam one button (Chain Heal). As its the most efficient no matter what. HW currently is only for omg a tank healer went down, lets cover them. I hate healing, and I am seriously considering specing Traithan Resto for WotLK because that actually looks FUN. Enhancement: How this tree got the most love while its already the most important DPS role in a raid astounds me. While I won't currently go yell "Nerf Enhancement" I'll just be angry if they don't buff elemental. Enhancement, currently, while being properly played is roughly 5% behind a same geared rogues, while being the reason that entire group even competes in DPS. The new talents are pretty much just more damage (Static Shock, Imp SS) however now they get something completely amazing. Weapon Spec. One that supports all weapons in one nice talent. A lot of people are saying "oh shiny, axes will crit like trains now!" but that's not even my gripe. Fist Weapons are now procing a SCALING armor pen debuff. Having a shaman dual wield those puppies (currently in alpha anyway) doesn't have a 100% uptime, but its enough to make a huge raid DPS difference. Not sure if its before or after debuffs, but it does stack with Sunder or Expose. Ask any melee how much even a little armor pen means. Just to throw it out there, 700ish armor pen is about a 5% damage increase for a DPS warrior. Now multiply that by every physical DPSer in the raid. The one good thing I like about Enhancement now is that they have a reason to use something besides water shield. However, It will suck really badly for ele shaman/boomkins (because boomkins will be using wrath now and then in WotLK) if the static shock eats Stormstrike charges. In fact, it would render the talent useless in a raid situation trying to go for max raid DPS. All in all, combined with shaman getting raid wide totems, most of this stuff are huge buffs. I just await to see elemental changes to make them viable in PvE again. --
Traithan, Draenei Elemental Shaman. Rogthar, Human Prot Warrior Rago, Human Combat Rogue Laminor, Human Prot Paladin Every time I pwn a warlock, God saves a kitten from the masterbaters. |
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| Aorn | #310204 Saturday July 5, 2008 at 05:15 | |
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quote: Originally posted by Laminor: Elemental: It will die in PvE. Period. MAYBE you might want one for raid wide totem of wrath, but honestly, you'd be better off getting another enhance shaman. They aren't scaling like the other casters, they are not gaining any raid utility, and their sorry excuse for final talents lowers DPS, not ups it. Working FS into your rotation lowers your overall DPS even if it did 100% more damage on its DoT ticks, Lava Burst might put it back up to normal, but is still no reason to take Storm/Earth/Fire. Thunder is purely a PvP tool. If you use Thunder in a raiding environment in an AOE situation, you'd be screwing the other AoEers due to knowing the mobs back (and out of their AoE). Likely getting people killed as well. However, one of the patch notes in the latest Alpha build does say "Elemental Shaman are currently being tested". It doesn't say that for any other class/spec, so it leads me to believe that someone at Blizzard knows the tree currently blows ass chunks. All in all, combined with shaman getting raid wide totems, most of this stuff are huge buffs. I just await to see elemental changes to make them viable in PvE again. Thanks Laminor >_> I'll be really p'od if I have to transfer my lock over here to pve >_>. Although the aff changes make me happy on the inside, I'd rather not be a "really neatly geared pvp'er" -_- --
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