| Alaunt | #298080 Friday May 2, 2008 at 13:47 | |
Member |
For those who haven't seen them, MMO-champion.com has screenshots of the new S4 arena gear. Of particular interest to me were these two: and  Since these are both MH weapons its pretty much a straight trade of +dmg for haste. Which builds would get the most out of this exchange and what are people's thoughts on PVE utility ? Edit: Yes I know the pictures are oddly phallic, that's the way all of their weapon screenshots look ;-p |
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| Alisia | #298112 Friday May 2, 2008 at 16:01 | |
Ready for Winter |
Well... My first thought is still healing. But it would affect nearly everything. With the change to the global cooldown mechanic it allows for a good amount of haste on one item as well as a good deal off the spell gcd. Think totems, instant heals, fears, dots... It also shaves off time that the spell takes to cast meaning less threat of pushback (something shamen have been asking for). It also reduces the time on channeled spells without reducing the amount of damage they do. So you'll get more health/mana back in the same amount of time (if you chain cast them together. from wowwiki: quote: Originally posted by Wowwiki: Speed = 1 + (Spell Haste Rating/1570) New Casting Time = 1 / (Speed * (1 / Base Casting Time)) or New casting Time = Base Casting Time / Speed or New Casting Time = Base Casting Time / (1 + (Spell Haste Rating/1570)) or New Casting Time = (Base Casting Time * 1570) / (1570 + Spell Haste Rating) Note that "base casting time" is after talents. For example, a warlock's shadow bolt is 3.0 "base cast time" under normal usage of the term "base cast time". However, for the purpose of this formula, you should use the improved cast time from your talents (2.5 cast time, in this example) if you have that talent, or the formula will not give the correct result. This may seem counter intuitive at first. Speed is not the same thing as casting time. Speed is a measurement of casts per second, while casting time is seconds per cast. Haste is a multiplier applied to speed, in exactly the same way mounted speed is calculated. That means if one has 10% haste, cast speed is 110%. In order to correctly calculate the new casting time, it must be inverted (giving you the spell's speed), multiplied by the speed percentage, and then inverted again. This figure is the spell's new casting time. The formula is (very slightly) not linear. The less haste you have, the more a single point of haste is worth. For a 2.5 cast speed (sorry, I play a warlock) 1 point of spell haste = 0.00159 seconds removed from the cast time. 200 points of spell haste makes each point worth 0.00141 seconds per point. This might seem like it has deminishing returns, however, this is not the case. If we divide DPS increase by haste points, the single point is a 0.063694267% increase in DPS per haste point, and the 200 points are also 0.063694268% per point. Practically speaking it will give you a constant increase in DPS per point, something to keep in mind when selecting your gear! Essentially, 1% haste means allows a player to cast 1 additional spell in the time it would normally take to cast 100 spells. If the spell is a 3 second cast, that means one can theoretically cast 101 spells in 300 seconds, or 2.97 seconds per spell. To determine the amount of time taken to cast a given sequence of spells, the reverse formula can be used, where Base Casting Time is the sum of all the spells in the given sequence: Spell Haste Rating = 1570 * ((Base Cast Time / New Cast Time) - 1) Example: I want my Fireball (3s), Fireball (3s), Scorch (1.5s) cast chain to take 6.5 seconds. Therefore, a [1570 * ((7.5 / 6.5) - 1) = ~242 Spell Haste Rating] is required. So... if you see that's almost enough to shave off a whole second from that cast sequence. --
Ghostcrawler: "Rogue talents are hard because the class is ultimately very mathy." Ghostcrawler is secretly Barbie? |
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| Alaunt | #298388 Monday May 5, 2008 at 11:41 | |
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Member |
Heh, I'm familiar with the haste mechanic and how the math generally works. The question I was posing is which builds/specs would be benefitted in trading 250ish +dmg (or 450ish +healing) from a MH weapon for a few hundred haste rating? Also, in regard to totems, the lowering of the GCD on their use to 1 second should make haste irrelevant to their casting, shouldn't it? I thought I had read that haste effects could not lower the GCD more than from 1.5 seconds to 1.0 seconds. |
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| Tribal | #298396 Monday May 5, 2008 at 12:11 | |
Demonwright Tribalsun Tribalmoon |
quote: Originally posted by Alaunt: Heh, I'm familiar with the haste mechanic and how the math generally works. The question I was posing is which builds/specs would be benefitted in trading 250ish +dmg (or 450ish +healing) from a MH weapon for a few hundred haste rating? Also, in regard to totems, the lowering of the GCD on their use to 1 second should make haste irrelevant to their casting, shouldn't it? I thought I had read that haste effects could not lower the GCD more than from 1.5 seconds to 1.0 seconds. Shaving off a second would turn my heal bomb into a flash heal. That's quiet nice. I would lose (with my current weapon) a little more than 500+ healing. I'm currently sitting at 2200 bonus so... I think, like most things, it would be situation... but Still... heal bomb as flash heal? Hmmm! Also, you're right. The GCD for totems can't be reduced any further. My lock might trade in her +300ish spell damage for that haste, though. Destruction locks could then go back to fitting for crit instead of haste. Of course, if she looses anymore spell damage, it won't matter how much I crit or how often... *shrugs* That's all I have for now. --
Tribal~ -- "So when you are listening to somebody, completely, attentively, then you are listening not only to the words ... but also to the feeling of what is being conveyed, to the whole of it, not part of it." � Jiddu Krishnamurti |
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| Alisia | #298403 Monday May 5, 2008 at 13:22 | |
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Ready for Winter |
quote: Originally posted by Alaunt: Heh, I'm familiar with the haste mechanic and how the math generally works. The question I was posing is which builds/specs would be benefitted in trading 250ish +dmg (or 450ish +healing) from a MH weapon for a few hundred haste rating? Also, in regard to totems, the lowering of the GCD on their use to 1 second should make haste irrelevant to their casting, shouldn't it? I thought I had read that haste effects could not lower the GCD more than from 1.5 seconds to 1.0 seconds. But I brought up the haste mechanic as well to point out that the amount on that weapon is nearly exactly what you'd need to shave a second off that mage cast sequence. Then probably: Destro locks, balance druids, and priests. Shaman I'm not sure of for either resto or elemental then. Resto druids perhaps for the GCD. But then I'm a bad druid and use Regrowth as a primary heal in addition to rejuvenation and lifebloom. I already have had too many arguments about the benefits of having spell haste on resto druids, especially with the regrowth changes. Heck, as a balance druid I could spam it on an undergeared tank in shadowlabs who was tanking one of the shadow priest packs. Something that I just couldn't do with just regular hots or healing touch. It's effectively the same as the old chain ht 4 rule was pre-BC, except with a 60% chance to crit. Didn't remember that about the totems though. --
Ghostcrawler: "Rogue talents are hard because the class is ultimately very mathy." Ghostcrawler is secretly Barbie? |
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| Alisia edited this message on Tuesday May 6, 2008 at 05:33 | ||
| Arkhain | #298506 Monday May 5, 2008 at 23:51 | |
this is it for a winner! |
In PvP, cutting down global cooldowns can easily mean the difference between getting a clutch instant off. Many spells in PvP don't really scale with spell power, but do with haste -- rank 1 frostbolts, or dispels, for example. The flip side is abilities with cooldowns -- no amount of haste is going to let you get off more than one Dragon's Breath or Frost Nova before their cooldown is up -- and abilities with over-time effects. Pretty much any other spell scales decently interchangeably with haste or power. With this in mind, we'll probably be seeing paladins, resto shamans, balance druids, AP mages, disc/holy priests and destro locks with haste weapons. As far as PvE goes, the same rules generally stand. There are fewer instances of the first point, as scalar damage is the rule of raid DPS, and far fewer healers interested in sacrificing regen for spamming HPS when upranking is usually a better choice to the same end. With very high amounts of haste, full rotations can change -- a 3 Lightning Bolt, 1 Chain Lightning cycle for Elemental shamans can become 4 Lightning Bolts instead, even though Elem shamans do not usually gain from small amounts of haste. For any other standard nuke-caster, there's a point of inflection where spell haste becomes superior to power at equal itemization. For those elite few who can raid T6 AND obtain a 2050 rating, the haste weapons may well be the weapons of choice until Sunwell gives up its greatest. |
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