| Kreallana | #296262 Tuesday April 22, 2008 at 12:38 | |
Quantum Kittie Heavenly Healz |
As a bear tank, I can say...I don't mind being shielded right off. I kinda prefer it - especially on fights where my healers have to move into position as the fight starts instead of starting off already in position. Then again, I'm not a warrior. --
Nykka, Kreallana, Krea, Rwnaella - AoC Kreallana, Enheduannah, Talwien, Ghula - WoW Nykka, Kreallana, Rwnaella, Dremmavae - WAR "my defensive skills consist primarily of running and screaming for mercy.", [Michael A. Ventrella, Arch Enemies] |
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| Darckence | #296266 Tuesday April 22, 2008 at 12:51 | |
Cloth: Not just for Paladins |
I'm pretty sure you're arguing the difference between raid boss tanking and trash / 5-man / 10-man tanking. On my warrior, for a raid boss I far prefer to go in with a shield + PoM + ES on. Much better to lose rage from the first hit (because another big hit is probably coming right after ;)) than risk getting a big heal on the pull, having your first shield slam + devastate miss or be parried, and the boss running after a healer. This is especially true if you don't have a hunter for MD. For 10-mans / trash, even my warrior in mostly badge gear + a bit of ZA + raid stuff is immune to normal instance trash mobs, and even some of the softer hitting 10-man, and some 25-man bosses barely hit me hard enough to keep up a shield slam / devastate / revenge rotation. For that stuff I am never in danger of dying, so I don't need shields, and I do need all the rage I can get (since the danger of the raid wiping to an over-zealous dps pulling aggro is greater than the danger from me dying). --
Livueta ~ Hunter Ameranthe ~ Warrior Darckence ~ Druid |
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| Guthammer | #296274 Tuesday April 22, 2008 at 13:04 | |
Shadowguarde Sunder Monkey |
I can't think of any fights that I am seeing that are a gear check on the tank. I will concede that I overstated the case--guess it was a gut (not pun intended) reaction from the old days. There are cases where either could be bad, but I rather take the first hit than not. (Then again I can flash back to a Gruul's learning raid where a mage ran ahead of me, took (and died to) the first hateful strike and I never had the rage to establish agro before all the rogues were dead. Now I know PW:S /= Mage in most cases...but yeah it still bothers me. --
4 70s and counting |
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| Guthammer edited this message on Tuesday April 22, 2008 at 13:56 | ||
| Zaddy | #296285 Tuesday April 22, 2008 at 13:48 | |
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Heal Sauce and Assplosions |
quote: Originally posted by Guthammer: I can't think of any fights that I am seeing that are a gear check on the tank. I will concede that I overstated the case--guess it was a gut (not pun intended) reaction from the old days. There are cases where either could be bad, but I rather take the first hit than not. (Then again I can flash back to a Gruul's learning raid where a mage ran ahead of me, took (and died to) the first hateful strike and I never had the rage to establish agro before all the rogues were dead. Now I know PW:S Mage in most cases...but yeah it still bothers me. To me, whether or not the tank gets the PW:S completely depends upon what kind of damage I have seen him take in previous pulls. To put it shortly, it's a judgement call. One of the things that I find most difficult to deal with as a healer is falling behind in the healing of a pull. This helps mitigate that, especially if I have to move into a certain position. But if I fall behind, I start having either to use flash heal (if I don't have time for a big heal), or landing the bigger heals as far as I can, and I can tell you from experience, that there are a number of tanks that have had difficulty keeping up with the healing aggro, especially on multi-target pulls. Usually tanks not keeping up with healing aggro aren't due to this circumstance. Usually it has to do with the healing aggro generated by group healing (Prayer of Healing/Circle of Healing), but I have seen it happen in the above described situation as well. --
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| Xeonio | #296322 Tuesday April 22, 2008 at 15:24 | |
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Charter Lead: Relentless |
One thing I have noticed is that the new badge gear has put my mana regen to ridiculous levels allowing me to be a bit more reckless w/my mana pool. Not good but at least its more forgiving now then it used to be. Sowien is pretty on the mark about flash spammers. I don't think healers worry about charts like DPS do. We all fill a certain roll and try to do our jobs for the betterment of the raid. Healers always tend to fall in line in a certain way anyways depending on what type of heal your using. COH priests coming in first with lots of AE dmg bosses with chain heals next then flash healing or pallies and gheal priests fall in randomly depending on their healing assignments. Druids always have near 0 overheal cuz of hot healing. Now, flash priests aren't always a bad thing. Yes, its inefficient compared to a pally healing but if your raid lacks pally healers they help to fill in that healing gap on MTs. I try to assign healers to the roles that fit them best depending on their heal style and go from there. Re: PW:Shield As my old guild began working its way through BWL in the day our MT found herself "overgeared" for it alot of times on trash and sometimes on a boss or two. To help with the aggro generation she would switch over some of her tank gear to DPS stuff. She'd take a bit more dmg for the extra rage and increased DPS was increased threat. This also helped to counteract the effects of PW:S as well. --
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| Zaddy | #296331 Tuesday April 22, 2008 at 15:55 | |
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Heal Sauce and Assplosions |
quote: Originally posted by Xeonio: One thing I have noticed is that the new badge gear has put my mana regen to ridiculous levels allowing me to be a bit more reckless w/my mana pool. Not good but at least its more forgiving now then it used to be. Hehe, you know, I used to joke about my mana regen being my limiting factor for aggro, especially as a rather aggressive healer to begin with, combined with CoH. This was only really verified as I was able to be even more aggressive, needing shorter breaks to regen my mana. I now have to be more careful about watching the threat meter and I haven't run out of mana in quite some time. quote: Originally posted by Xeonio: Sowien is pretty on the mark about flash spammers. I don't think healers worry about charts like DPS do. We all fill a certain roll and try to do our jobs for the betterment of the raid. Healers always tend to fall in line in a certain way anyways depending on what type of heal your using. COH priests coming in first with lots of AE dmg bosses with chain heals next then flash healing or pallies and gheal priests fall in randomly depending on their healing assignments. Druids always have near 0 overheal cuz of hot healing. I admit to looking at meters, but not until after everything's done. To me, it's not about pulling the big numbers, but keeping health bars above the bottom. I am absolutely very competitive, but first and primarily with myself. I use meters first to analyze my own performance, especially with respect to spell distribution and keeping my HoT up. quote: Originally posted by Xeonio: Now, flash priests aren't always a bad thing. Yes, its inefficient compared to a pally healing but if your raid lacks pally healers they help to fill in that healing gap on MTs. I try to assign healers to the roles that fit them best depending on their heal style and go from there. I couldn't agree more. If the raid doesn't have the flash healing ability of a pali where it's needed, a priest can step up there. If all priests only used their big heals, the risk of the tank dying is great due to the longer window of a cast. Versatility is a priest's most valuable asset when it comes to healing. I never said there wasn't a place for flash healing. I just think that with many priests, the spell is overused when they could be far more effective using their other numerous abilities. I think perhaps the better message that I'm getting out of this discussion isn't so much about flash heal being overused, but the danger of overusing any one of the priest's healing spells. Priests have a huge catalog of healing abilities they can bring to the table. Being the most effective possible, is knowing which one(s) to use in which situation. Based upon playing style, what works for me, might not work for anyone else. What's important, is keeping your comrades alive (and that includes yourself) --
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| Sowien | #296655 Thursday April 24, 2008 at 11:14 | |
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Member |
quote: Originally posted by Zaddy: I think perhaps the better message that I'm getting out of this discussion isn't so much about flash heal being overused, but the danger of overusing any one of the priest's healing spells. Priests have a huge catalog of healing abilities they can bring to the table. Being the most effective possible, is knowing which one(s) to use in which situation. Based upon playing style, what works for me, might not work for anyone else. What's important, is keeping your comrades alive (and that includes yourself) YES If anyone is interested I you can get SW Stats and set it to a "mana efficiency" filter and have a look after each encounter to see what was worth more for that boss to use. |
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| Sowien | #296656 Thursday April 24, 2008 at 11:19 | |
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Member |
quote: Originally posted by Guthammer: I can't think of any fights that I am seeing that are a gear check on the tank. I will concede that I overstated the case--guess it was a gut (not pun intended) reaction from the old days. Bear? Lynx? in ZA? On a somewhat undergeared tank I don't have the mana to waste let alone the time PWS'ing. Or do you mean old world? I think Nef was pretty vicious on some, especially those tanks with cloth FR gear... Broodlord was no fun for an undergeared tank. Patchwerk either from the times I did him. Huhu for tanks getting NR gear? Some pretty tank gear heavy fightsd in old world and TBC I thinks. |
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