| Shadowphaze | #286323 Thursday March 6, 2008 at 08:26 | |
Haz big pocketz |
Okay this fight is really becoming the stuff my nightmares are made of. I'm looking for advice from all you healy types who have been through this fight before. How do you handle the chaos? If you're a priest, what healing spells do you find to be the most helpful to you during this fight? There's a lot of people running around and the one thing that really makes it an issue is them running out of my healing range just as my heal goes off (thus I heal myself instead because of my interface settings). On top of that I spend so much time running and healing myself (not to mention competing with those uber pally healers /cry) that I'm at the rock bottom of my healing meter which stresses me out even more. And yes I know that the healing meters don't give the whole picture, etc. etc. but at the same time I don't want to be thought incompetant at what I'm doing. I'd really like to keep these people alive AND keep my hair on my head a the same time. Any suggestions? (BTW if there are spelling errors it's because it's early here and I'm not quite awake yet.) --
Proud Officer and Priest Class Captain The Knights of Justice |
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| Shadowphaze edited this message on Thursday March 6, 2008 at 08:49 | ||
| Alaunt | #286358 Thursday March 6, 2008 at 11:29 | |
Member |
Couple of points: Phase I Assign healers to the platforms not the individual tanks. Generally the tanks move around to cover more than one platform, chasing them is inefficient. Number the platforms (usually 1 - 4 , left to right as you enter the phoenix hall from the entrance). At least one healer should be assigned to the add tank. Two may be needed if you corral them for P2 rather than DPSing them down. Phase II The main priority for healing in P2 is the 2 tanks on A'lar plus the add tank (or tanks). Healing assignments should be employed for these people and their healers should move with them as needed. Raid healing is the much more difficult role here. Group assignments only work if your groups have assigned areas. If you are assigned to the melee, well at least you know where they are going to be all the time. Covering ranged can often be a PITA as they move to get adds, then A'lar, then to not get incinerated. Personal preferences differ but I turn on friendly life bars so I can monitor the people around me all the time. DPSers should be aware that they need to keep an eye on their own health, use bandages/healthstones/potions as needed. Lightwells / PoM are also useful here. NOTE: I would also recommend against using a UI setting that heals you instead of your target all the time, since it lowers your effective healing and inflates your overheal % which are factors I consider when slotting healers. |
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| Gerad | #286359 Thursday March 6, 2008 at 11:33 | |
Member |
Less panic and running, more healing IMO. :) Seriously though - it is a very chaotic fight, but be aware of a couple things. (And note - these are general ideas, not knowing the exact strat of the group you may go with) 1) You can't heal everyone all the time - the room is big, people will be out of range, trust in your healing assignments and your other healers to hit people who are out of your range, instead of running around alot. When assignments are handed out - pay particular attention who might be moving with you, and find out if they are going to move first or if you should. Sometimes I've seen a tank die because all the healers were re-positioning all at once. Usually not a concern, but if it's not mentioned, be wary of it. 2) Be aware of where you are in relation to your assignment and where you are in relation to your other healers. If you are assigned a particular tank/group/class/etc, then never run out of range of that assignment, and if you have a moment while not keeping them up, hit people in range. If you notice that there's alot of healers within range, maybe consider moving to the opposite side so you can hit those who are out of their range, while keeping your target in range. 3) Especially for this fight, gently remind people that bandages are their friends, and healthstones are not there to just occupy a bag slot. Depending on the situation - there are very key people who have to stay alive during this fight, and if you have to choose and prioritize, sometimes DPS has to worry a little bit more about themselves (And I say this as both a Healer and a DPSer for A'lar). Dead DPS does not do good DPS. Anyhow, just a few ideas that may or may not be helpful - if you have more specific questions always feel free to ask. Edit: Alot of what I posted was posted above by Alaunt almost simultaneously. Hah. |
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| Shadowphaze | #286381 Thursday March 6, 2008 at 12:31 | |
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Haz big pocketz |
quote: Originally posted by Gerad: Less panic and running, more healing IMO. :) 2) Be aware of where you are in relation to your assignment and where you are in relation to your other healers. If you are assigned a particular tank/group/class/etc, then never run out of range of that assignment, and if you have a moment while not keeping them up, hit people in range. If you notice that there's alot of healers within range, maybe consider moving to the opposite side so you can hit those who are out of their range, while keeping your target in range. See here is where it's kind of tricky. In Phase 2 obviously our main goals were to keep up the tanks but even they were running around quite a bit making it impossible to stand and get a heal off. The rest of the raid? It was impossible. Eventually we tried assigning a healer to each group to better organize it with the instruction to keep the groups together, etc. Each group had a member with a lucky charm on their head so we all knew where to stand. The problem was, the groups were a mix of melee and ranged (at least mine was). So I had a rogue dashing off all the time chasing things pulling me and sometimes the rest of the group with him. It just didn't work out that great in the end as I couldn't ever stand in one place long enough to heal. :-/ (I've since shut off the feature in the interface for healing myself.) But still looking for ways to make myself sleep better at night. I really appreciate what you've all written so far. --
Proud Officer and Priest Class Captain The Knights of Justice |
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| KeeRissa | #286382 Thursday March 6, 2008 at 12:34 | |
Burn or Heal? |
quote: Originally posted by Shadowphaze: If you're a priest, what healing spells do you find to be the most helpful to you during this fight? It all depends on your healing assignment. On P1, if you're on the tanks, big GHeals are your friend. Overhealing is not an issue here, as they tend to take pretty spiky burst damage. It also depends on how you're assigned to heal the tanks. Some groups (as Alaunt states) have specific healers at specific platforms. Others, and the way I've seen it done, is to have a pally and druid healer move to the next platform while the others stay behind a couple of seconds to keep the tank up, then *they* move, as well. Again, GHeal on tanks, a flash if they are getting really low, with PoM and Renew up at all times if possible (don't underestimate Renew). If you're on the Add tank for P1, you can probably downrank GHeal. This, for me as a priest healer with a resto shaman helper, was an easysauce assignment and I usually went into P2 with a full mana bar and the ability to heal overtime on my tank assignment. I usually just kept PoM bouncing and Renew on the tank, with those lower-rank GHeals if the tank got really low. No matter what my assignment, when A'lar Flame Quilled, I tried to make sure the tanks were topped off with bouncing PoMs and Renew. If they die before they get back up, things can be painful. In P2, if you're on MT, move with your MT. Period. The MT needs you more than anyone else in the raid (except maybe yourself). If you're assigned to an MT with someone, send them a whisper and try to align yourselves on opposite sides of the room, so that adds and such don't cause issues because one of you will always be in range. Same really goes for add tanks - if you're on an add tank, know where they are at all times and move with them. They won't have time to move to you (and often can't). GHeal, renew and the ever-present PoM is awesome here. Flash might be needed if the tank gets too many stacks of the debuff before another tank can taunt off of them. If you're on the raid, this is hard going. You might consider taking Circle of Healing if you don't already have it - it can be a huge benefit in a fight like A'lar where a lot of damage is flying about (I never liked it until I saw its usefulness in Hyjal and BT). Prayer of Mending can help, too, and of course keep PoM and Renew on everyone you can. The advice of "use your pots and bandages and healthstones, people" is very true - while you can do all you can, they should be helping you. quote: There's a lot of people running around and the one thing that really makes it an issue is them running out of my healing range just as my heal goes off (thus I heal myself instead because of my interface settings). Yeah, I'd think about changing my settings. I don't heal anything if my target goes out of range - keeps my overheal down because the heal fizzles. Do you have a range checker on your party/raid frames? It's invaluable in this fight, imo, so that if you have a heal in motion but the person moves, you can cancel your cast and move (you'll find it invaluable later on, too). quote: On top of that I spend so much time running and healing myself (not to mention competing with those uber pally healers /cry) that I'm at the rock bottom of my healing meter which stresses me out even more. Turn off your meters. Honestly, if they are worrying you that much, turn them off. All they are doing is making you stress and that contributes more to being thought incompetent (imo, of course) than what they say. Also, you're never going to be able to compete with a good pally healer (or even a so-so pally healer) or a druid or a resto shaman who's raid healing on healing meters. They're built to be faster. Your job is to outlast them, to be able to pull off that big heroic heal as the tank is about to...well...tank. Edit: Reading your reply, it sounds like P2 is kinda...yeah. I would talk to your raid leader(s) about a different healing strategy. What I've seen work is a healer assigned to each MT and each add tank (sometimes two, depending on amount of healers) with the rest of the healers on the raid. A resto shaman (or two) and a druid (or two) should make healing the raid easysauce while pallies and priests do awesome on MTs. A shadow priest or two with VE up on add tanks will help heal the raid, too, if they're positioned properly in groups. |
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| Shadowphaze | #286386 Thursday March 6, 2008 at 12:47 | |
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Haz big pocketz |
Here's a quick rundown on the current strategy we were using last night: Phase 1: One healer has a lucky charm on their head. They stand at the first platfrom A'lar is going to. All the healers bunch up on that healer and heal their target. We move as a group from one tank to the other as A'lar moves. This really hasn't been a problem and we transition from phase 1 to phase 2 rather seemlessly. But I have to ask about PoM. We were asked not to use it. The strategy we're using on the charter calls for the mobs he summons to be pulled down to the lower level and killed off. There's worry that PoM would proc and keep the bird up there on those above. What are your thoughts/opinions? Phase 2: Heal the tanks. Stay out of the fires. Avoid the meteors. But it doesn't seem to work out that way. There were a lot of birds flying around (taking me out at times), not to mention A'lar never seemed to stay put (is that normal?). I've tried reading strats on this and watching videos but it's never been one from a healer's perspective so I can't get a feeling for what is wrong. If I'm just positioning myself wrong or what I haven't a clue. I just know I'm trying really hard but feel as though it's not enough you know? As for the suggestion for Circle of Healing -- we have at least one (or two?) priests in the raid with this. I've considered respec'ing to full holy to be able to get this, but then we would lose the Spirit buff for the raid. So it's double edged sword. --
Proud Officer and Priest Class Captain The Knights of Justice |
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| Guthammer | #286409 Thursday March 6, 2008 at 13:52 | |
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Shadowguarde Sunder Monkey |
About P1 and PoM... We tanks found that it can make the adds sick to the tanks up top as Al'ar moves. More annoying and slowing down DPS (since we aren't (yet??)) stacking up all the adds to kill in P2) on killing the adds. P2 PoM should be fine, we have a tank dragging the Embers to the paladin add tank. --
4 70s and counting |
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| Shadowphaze | #286413 Thursday March 6, 2008 at 13:56 | |
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Haz big pocketz |
quote: Originally posted by Guthammer: About P1 and PoM... We tanks found that it can make the adds sick to the tanks up top as Al'ar moves. More annoying and slowing down DPS (since we aren't (yet??)) stacking up all the adds to kill in P2) on killing the adds. P2 PoM should be fine, we have a tank dragging the Embers to the paladin add tank. What are your thoughts then on using it on the the tank during P1 who is down below to help him/her hold onto the mobs a bit more? --
Proud Officer and Priest Class Captain The Knights of Justice |
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| Guthammer | #286414 Thursday March 6, 2008 at 14:02 | |
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Shadowguarde Sunder Monkey |
Seems like it should be fine for the add tank and DPS. If I recall correctly Mayden is no longer tanking anywhere near the other P1 tanks so the chance of a bounce to one of us should minimal. --
4 70s and counting |
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| Shadowphaze | #286419 Thursday March 6, 2008 at 14:14 | |
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Haz big pocketz |
quote: Originally posted by Guthammer: Seems like it should be fine for the add tank and DPS. If I recall correctly Mayden is no longer tanking anywhere near the other P1 tanks so the chance of a bounce to one of us should minimal. Exactly. But it'll help him/her get a bit more aggro on any new mobs that come that way. (BTW please don't take this post/topic as anything more than me trying to improve myself for that fight to be more helpful during battle. :) ) --
Proud Officer and Priest Class Captain The Knights of Justice |
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| Roberth | #286420 Thursday March 6, 2008 at 14:14 | |
Holy "Diver!" Priest |
Al'ar *can* be chaotic, but that's typically in P2. P1 should be so straightforward its almost boring. Usually I'll read a magazine while P1 is going. *coughs* Except on LO raids naturally...I give 150%! :P Anyway, everyone above me has already said enough on the matter but let me add in some pointers from my perspective as well: Renew is my bread and butter spell...should be for all Priests as it is the most mana efficient way to keep somebody healed. You'll overheal a bit...maybe quite a bit as other healers are topping off your Renewed people, but at least that target will be fine if they're DOTted or damage is coming in waves. PoM is also a crutch spell I lean on. Sure you can't control where it bounces too - I've seen it bounce from the MT and land on me, never to leave. :( But then I've seen it bounce from MT to OT, back to MT, and repeat like a pinball. I love it and so long as its off cooldown and not sitting on someone else it should be cast over and over. I always leave P1 with a full mana bar. Its not hard to do - you're not the only healer after all. Usually all I'm doing is PoM on the MT followed by a Renew when it bounces off, GH as needed, and a Renew on everyone who jumps off due to Quillfire (everyone takes falling damage I think). I've been in P1 fights where I'm assigned a tank to follow as well as 2 platforms to heal for. Both methods work well for me. P2 is the bitch though. Every fight I've been on I've been assigned an MT or OT to keep up. No problem. Its just the meteors, birds, and fire that get me. :D Meteors: pretty easy to avoid...you'd think. Its explosion radius is pretty huge but if you see that you're the target and can start running forward right away (I always face the center) you'll get out of it. Problem there is that the camera doesn't like to play nice with me from time and time and I have a hard time craning my camera up to see where Al'ar is going next. Meh. Birds: straightforward right? No...if those birds aren't picked up right away and one spawns next to you while you're healing - you've not gained aggro! I've been lucky most fights in that a hunter pulls the bird over to a tank right away but sometimes I've been in the middle of a heal, aggro a bird, and *I'm* bird food. Fire: for me the graphics of the fire seem to glitch. If I look at the fire head on I can see it. If I look at it obliquely all I can see is the center pulsing part. Hence, I've died more times to the fire patch than to anything else. Feh. For me, I don't worry about healing meters until after the fight - but remember too that Priests have other utilities other than healing meters. We dispel as well as cure disease. Sometimes your mana will be tied up doing non-healy things. PoM also will never show up on your healing meters due to the nature of the spell. Overheals for me personally I like to keep in the teens...or 20-30% range for boss fights. Lightwell I also lay down during P2 - those healing numbers never show up in your meter either. *grumble* I like the Al'ar fight personally...its a slow build up of excitement to the absolute crescendo of chaos at the end. If the entire raid is on their toes you can get Al'ar. --
Its time to put down the pipe and pick up the PWN!  |
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| karbynna | #286474 Thursday March 6, 2008 at 17:34 | |
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Member |
quote: Originally posted by Guthammer: About P1 and PoM... We tanks found that it can make the adds sick to the tanks up top as Al'ar moves. More annoying and slowing down DPS (since we aren't (yet??)) stacking up all the adds to kill in P2) on killing the adds. P2 PoM should be fine, we have a tank dragging the Embers to the paladin add tank. I'd think PoM would still be viable for P1 as you could have a hunter pull the add down or have a pally taunt? Discuss? |
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| Guthammer | #286490 Thursday March 6, 2008 at 18:37 | |
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Shadowguarde Sunder Monkey |
quote: Originally posted by Shadowphaze:(BTW please don't take this post/topic as anything more than me trying to improve myself for that fight to be more helpful during battle. :) ) I think its a great discussion and you are no where near stepping on my toes. --
4 70s and counting |
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| KeeRissa | #286520 Thursday March 6, 2008 at 23:13 | |
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Burn or Heal? |
quote: Originally posted by karbynna: I'd think PoM would still be viable for P1 as you could have a hunter pull the add down or have a pally taunt? Discuss? This may be the difference in your strategy; we keep a hunter at each side platform to pull adds down to the add tank. PoM should not generate enough threat, though, to make the adds stay up top. It certainly didn't help keep them down below when I was on add tank duty healing. |
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| Erywin | #286554 Friday March 7, 2008 at 02:31 | |
AP Physical DPS Lead Stylin' |
Yeah AP has one dedicated hunter to piss off the adds and bring them to the add tank. Works well enough :) Cheers, E --
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