| Paks | #287936 Friday March 14, 2008 at 04:29 | |
YOU'RE RUNNING OUT OF TIME FRUIT VENDOR! |
Assuming you meant judgement there. And yeah, I've got a couple of really bang-on Ret Pallies in the guild, most of whom get Crusader on there between my shield toss and my judgement, just to make sure if I'm judging Righteousness it has a better chance at crit. Made me nervous the first few times, but I love how quick off the mark they are now that I'm used to it.
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Charter Lead - Maelstrom (Tanks)  |
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| Gyrik | #292445 Sunday March 30, 2008 at 04:24 | |
"Yub yub, Commander." WL Tank Lead |
quote: Originally posted by Paks: Assuming you meant judgement there. And yeah, I've got a couple of really bang-on Ret Pallies in the guild, most of whom get Crusader on there between my shield toss and my judgement, just to make sure if I'm judging Righteousness it has a better chance at crit. Made me nervous the first few times, but I love how quick off the mark they are now that I'm used to it. WTB your ret paladins =( --
 Dazhbog - Armory Gyrik - Armory The birth of the Argent Crusade - credit to Invisusira of Smolderthorn |
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| Kavanagh | #292454 Sunday March 30, 2008 at 10:43 | |
Truthiness and the American Way |
quote: Originally posted by Gyrik: quote: Originally posted by Paks: Assuming you meant judgement there. And yeah, I've got a couple of really bang-on Ret Pallies in the guild, most of whom get Crusader on there between my shield toss and my judgement, just to make sure if I'm judging Righteousness it has a better chance at crit. Made me nervous the first few times, but I love how quick off the mark they are now that I'm used to it. WTB your ret paladins =( LO slots ret paladins? --
This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality. Remember, we are eternal. All this pain is an illusion.   |
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| Paks | #292463 Sunday March 30, 2008 at 12:51 | |
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YOU'RE RUNNING OUT OF TIME FRUIT VENDOR! |
I first read that as "LOL Slots ret paladins?" And yeah, I <3 Ret pallies. Got two of them going on the Maelstrom run on Wednesday. --
Charter Lead - Maelstrom (Tanks) |
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| Toragan | #292465 Sunday March 30, 2008 at 13:44 | |
The not so serious paladin |
quote: Originally posted by Kavanagh: LO slots ret paladins? Some charters do clearly.;) --
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| Pantzeri | #292713 Monday March 31, 2008 at 19:25 | |
Client 10 |
I'm one of those ret pallies, (I go with Nub Tir on their SSC runs, Denetus goes with AP) I know I'm so shittily geared compared to the content LO is pushing, I have to gear up on farming runs first to to the desired damage needed, (WTB heroics) It also doesn't help ret is in a transition right now, come WOLTK they might become what shadow priests became in TBC, it also doesn't help that most raids only take 1 ret paladin with them, (with reason) --
Pantzeri - Respec Addicted Paladin Pulsaria - Terribad Fire Spec'd mage |
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| Arkhain | #292745 Tuesday April 1, 2008 at 01:32 | |
this is it for a winner! |
quote: Originally posted by Pantzeri:I know I'm so shittily geared compared to the content LO is pushing, I have to respec fire or kill myself FIXED |
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| Kavanagh | #292757 Tuesday April 1, 2008 at 04:40 | |
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Truthiness and the American Way |
quote: Originally posted by Toragan: quote: Originally posted by Kavanagh: LO slots ret paladins? Some charters do clearly.;) I was being facetious. ;) But what Pantz says is correct: most raiding groups only slot one ret paladin per raid, making for a lot of competition for that slot. Couple that with ret paladins needing more overall gear then other DPSers in order to be viable DPS, and you have an environment that's difficult for a ret paladin to make any headway. It's the age-old problem of "I need gear to get slotted, but I can't get slotted if I don't have the gear" with the addition of "There's only one slot to go around per raid". --
This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality. Remember, we are eternal. All this pain is an illusion. |
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| Pantzeri | #292791 Tuesday April 1, 2008 at 09:12 | |
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Client 10 |
quote: Originally posted by Arkhain: quote: Originally posted by Pantzeri:I know I'm so shittily geared compared to the content LO is pushing, I have to respec fire or kill myself FIXED I went fire the for the 3 mages, Salbot and Starlear tank run last night, staying fire for a bit --
Pantzeri - Respec Addicted Paladin Pulsaria - Terribad Fire Spec'd mage |
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| Paks | #292934 Tuesday April 1, 2008 at 14:14 | |
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YOU'RE RUNNING OUT OF TIME FRUIT VENDOR! |
Seriously, I slot them as utility in general. Ours are damned good, yes. Slightly undergeared (one still has a blue weapon) but overall excellent additions to the raid, both for my threat and for damage and healing help. Moreso because it means I've got two other front-line paladins to get the Holy Trinity - Crusader, Wisdom, and Light judged and stable on targets. Not to mention plate wearing DPS in general can sometimes hold the boss for long enough to get another tank over to pick it up, and I long ago stopped laughing at ret-heals, since even Ret's Holy Lights can make a serious difference in whether I live or die. --
Charter Lead - Maelstrom (Tanks) |
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| Todyn | #307535 Friday June 20, 2008 at 09:53 | |
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Member |
Hello Everyone, I love this thread and have read through the topics presented here, and I wanted to contribute to Retribution information. I started off as a Holy Paladin healing for my guild, Few Against the Many. We eventually recruited 5 holy paladins, and I noticed that we had encountered zero protection paladins. I made the switch to Prot and tanked for my guild, and some of LO up through Rage (thanks Awake for the opportunities :)) Now, since seeing the emergence of Protection Paladins as completely viable tanks, I made a switch one more time, to Retribution (think I finally found my calling as a Paladin). For quick information here are some basic info for Retribution Paladins: Stat Priority: Hit till maxed > Expertise > Str > AP > Crit > Armor Penetration > Haste This is only for Alliance Retadins, as our only seal is Seal of Command. Reason: If the paladin is not hit capped, then they are several gimping their DPS each time they miss, because they only swing X number of times a minute. Expertise is in the same court because we cannot afford to have our attacks parried or blocked. Str and AP kind of go hand in hand, we want to hit as hard as possible, Fyi: 95 Hit rating is needed to cap it with 3/3 precision, whereas I believe we also need 44 Expertise to be expertise capped. Generally Str > AP, because of 5/5 Divine Strength, meaning a Retadin gets 2.2 AP per Str, (even more with Blessing of Kings :)) Gear Issues: The Retribution Paladin is EXTREMELY EXTREMELY Gear dependent, luckily so much of their equipment can be attained outside of raids (season 3 and crafted items are my best friend). Build: 5/8/48 is pretty much the cookie build for a PvE Retadin http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/paladin/talents.html?tal=5000000000000000000005310000000000000000005023015130033125331051 Is the build that I currently use on Todyn. It maximizes my damage output and group buffs. Why 1/3 Vindication? Vindication CAN proc judgements of Light and Wisdom, even though bosses are immune to it. Why no Benediction - I'll get plenty of mana back via Sanctified Judgements that Benediction's overall benefits are greatly reduced. 3/3 Pursuit? Mobility is key for a melee DPSer', a lot of fights require running around, and less time spent running is more time spent hitting the mob. Why Bring a Retribution Paladin: A DPSer A cleanse A BoP 3% Crit to entire Raid 2% more damage to his group Extra Pally Blessing. DPS: I do have to admit it here, Retribution Paladins will and should never top the damage charts, but we can still do very very respectable damage. In my few experiences raiding TK/SSC as a Retribution Paladin, I often place between 6th and 9th in terms of overall damage done. You bring a Retadin for his extra utility and he will justify his position by contributing with his DPS. That said: Some quick goals for Retadins Min stats for Kara: 1500 AP 25% Crit Hit capped or very close to it. SSC/TK: 1800 AP 27 - 28% Crit Hit capped, some Expertise Begin to acquire Armor Pen or Haste Hyjal/BT: 2000 AP 30% Crit Hit capped, 10 to 15 Expertise Some Armor Pen/Haste Group Composition: I do have this one pet peeve of mine: Please dont stick your Retadin in your Prot pally's group, you are severely gimping his DPS by doing so. If you Prot pallies out there really want a threat boost, throw a Resto Shaman in your group and have him/her drop Wrath of Air :) The Paladin pretty much needs to be in the Melee group to be viable DPS. Ideally your melee group will be: Rogue Rogue Enhance Shaman Fury Warrior Retadin Windfury accounts for about 100 to 200 of my personal DPS. What you can expect a Retadin to do in terms of DPS: Kara: My feeling is you can expect 500 to 600. SSC/TK: 700 to 800 Hyjal/BT: 1000 to 1200 The greatest leap for the Retadin is from T5 to T6 content imo, that is where we are almost fully hit and expertise capped and can really open up on a mob. That is also where we can acquire our final weapons (Yay for Cat's Edge or Torch). Retadins are extremely gear dependent and require precision to play well, but they do bring a lot of benefits to the raid. Please feel free to PM in game if you have any questions regarding Retadins in general, also feel free to send potential retadins to me, I'd love to help them out. A Badly played Retadin is absolutely horrible, but a well played Retadin will make raids go: "Why the hell didn't we roll with one before???" :) Anyways my toons: Todyn Malarus Thanks guys! |
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| Arkhain | #307648 Friday June 20, 2008 at 17:44 | |
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this is it for a winner! |
Vindication doesn't proc judgements -- refreshing judgements procs judgements. And, your minimum stats seem rather high. I can't quite recall numbers for entering T4 or T5 content, but having 2k AP and 30% crit without any BT/Hyjal level gear seems difficult and unnecessary with the difficulty of the earlier bosses. I'd even go as far as to move those numbers each a tier down; 2k AP and 30% crit is fine to END BT and Hyjal, rather than start. Other than that, thanks for the excellent write-up. I'd even suggest to repost this into its own thread rather than tack it on the end of a healing discussion. |
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| Toragan | #307650 Friday June 20, 2008 at 17:49 | |
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The not so serious paladin |
Good writeup man with some good info in it. Tack it up in a new thread and I'll sticky it for ya. Also Alissah if you'd like to do the same with a healing thread I'll sticky it. You have some great insights into pally healing. That way we won't just have a tanking thread and a "other roles" thread.;)
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| Todyn | #307926 Monday June 23, 2008 at 07:30 | |
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Member |
quote: Originally posted by Arkhain: Vindication doesn't proc judgements -- refreshing judgements procs judgements. And, your minimum stats seem rather high. I can't quite recall numbers for entering T4 or T5 content, but having 2k AP and 30% crit without any BT/Hyjal level gear seems difficult and unnecessary with the difficulty of the earlier bosses. I'd even go as far as to move those numbers each a tier down; 2k AP and 30% crit is fine to END BT and Hyjal, rather than start. Other than that, thanks for the excellent write-up. I'd even suggest to repost this into its own thread rather than tack it on the end of a healing discussion. My understanding of Vindication is it counts as an "extra hit" thus it can proc a Judgement of Wisdom or Light. As for minimum stats, I kinda threw them out randomly and based on BEIMBA or warcrafter.com They might be a little high, My expectations for my paladin in terms of DPS is: T4: 600 T5: 800 T6: 1000 But i leave that one up to you Ark, since you've progressed further than I, my personal best DPS is around 1,200 sustained, but from wowstats etc, my sustained is hovering around 800 to 900 |
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| Alaunt | #307938 Monday June 23, 2008 at 08:57 | |
Member |
quote: Originally posted by Todyn: Ideally your melee group will be: Rogue Rogue Enhance Shaman Fury Warrior Retadin Windfury accounts for about 100 to 200 of my personal DPS. Drop a rogue and get a feral druid in that group. They will QQ about having windfury up rather than grace of air (I hear ya druids I dun like WF either but in this group makeup GoA doesn't make sense) but that aura is an extra 5% crit (6% if you can convince them to use the Idol of the Raven Goddess) and in many fights Improved Leader of the Pack will keep the melee group topped off nicely. |
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