| Sparkfist | #280926 Saturday February 2, 2008 at 15:09 | |
Sacrafice to the Loot God. |
^-- the above post was me forgot to log the girlfriend out.
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| Fireina | #282570 Tuesday February 12, 2008 at 18:54 | |
All Hail the HypnoToad |
Well if you are looknig at wwws numbers, odds are the casters involved were stacked with groups that give synergistic buffs. I.e. with shadow priests or shammies for mana regen, against mobs with Curse of Elements on them, and with either boomkins for crit or elemental shammies. And lets not forget the occasional power infusion that gets tossed around... -F |
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| kaeble | #283567 Tuesday February 19, 2008 at 11:12 | |
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Also have a rotation set for you mana gems and pots. Use them early so that you have the cooldown later. Make sure you time your evocation right. Wait till you have a moment where you will not take damage and are low on mana. Make sure your that your pots and gems are on cooldown. Use those first then use evocation. I use mine when I am around 10-15% mana. Evocation should be kept for when you absolutely need it. If you have the mana in a long fight and used your mana emerald 3 charges, conjure another one. It will pay off in a very long fight. Conjure the lower gems at the beginning so if you don't have the mana to conjure another emerald mana you will have something to use when the cooldown is available. Also you are running too many ABs in your rotation. The most I think you should be spamming is 3 ABs. I may be wrong on that but I am pretty sure you only want 3 due to the 4th being so mana intensive. --
This had to be my new sig: New and exciting 51 Mage talents! Arcane Garbage, Living Bomb, and Deep Shit. |
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| Sparkfist | #285887 Tuesday March 4, 2008 at 08:00 | |
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Sacrafice to the Loot God. |
Well i got my self to 13k unbuffed mana and it seems to be paying off so far :) MY dps thru 5mans/kara jumped up and i get a little more freedom for aoe and spamming spells for burning the last 10% of bosses down. Im currently serching for lists of whats recommended for the diffrent classes as they enter the raids. I know i saw some on these forums a while ago so i gotta dig them up but i would assume as long as im over 1000+ spell dmg and have a decent ammount of hit i should be ok for most raids.
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| Alaunt | #285900 Tuesday March 4, 2008 at 10:10 | |
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1000 +dmg and hit-capped is a fine place to start w/ 25-man content. Spell-hit is even more important to sustainable DPS as your trash mobs routinely are lvl 71-72. My personal preference is to have a little bit of spell penetration as well in order to reduce the likelihood of partial resists but a) not everyone would agree with me on that one and b) its definately a low priority when compared to +hit (till capped) and +dmg. |
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| Sparkfist | #285915 Tuesday March 4, 2008 at 11:43 | |
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Sacrafice to the Loot God. |
Awsome! i have 10 penitration from talents (arcane) and i just changed my meta gem so i can play around with my sockets much more ill see what i can come up with to add some more and maby put a bit more hit on there to ... aslong as i can keep my mana above 13k of course :)
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| Pantzeri | #285997 Tuesday March 4, 2008 at 15:36 | |
Client 10 |
quote: Originally posted by Sparkfist: PS. that link to the mage thred says that deep arcane is the worst spec? i dunno about that.. Alot of the conclusions of those mages, (Vontre is probably one of the most promiment theorycrafting mages on there and stands out in my mind because of his A'lar sig, paraphrased, 'Fire is better than Arcane on A'lar'), comes through with alot of math. From what I understand Arcane stands out at the t5 level, pre-kara-SSC, you could go Fire or Frost, you just go OOM fast with spamming AB, you maintain high DPS but not DPM --
Pantzeri - Respec Addicted Paladin Pulsaria - Terribad Fire Spec'd mage |
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| Sparkfist | #286288 Thursday March 6, 2008 at 00:46 | |
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Sacrafice to the Loot God. |
Yes but with most Arcane mages at my level of raiding they dont have the 13k mana pool (Fire/Frost have even less) so im hopeing that will offset the OOM factor it seems to be working i usualy oom totaly at about 10 % on most higher end bosses and the lesser bosses i dont oom on :) im intrested to see how i do next time i get in to a raid that the leader benchmark with wws :) i dont like WWS but it seems to be the new thing to benchmark yourself by :)
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| Arkhain | #286300 Thursday March 6, 2008 at 02:24 | |
this is it for a winner! |
Every bit of int you add is more raw spelldamage and crit that you're sacrificing. Talents help offset the difference but not nearly enough to make int a stat worth stacking. | |
| Alaunt | #286360 Thursday March 6, 2008 at 11:44 | |
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Bottom line is the need for sustainable DPS. You're a DPS class, that's what they slotted you for. If you can put out the #s with arcane, you're fine. Theorycrafting is great but presupposes a mini-max condition which is not always present in LO style raids. If you're the only fire mage, you have to keep up your own imp scorch stack, which effects your DPS. Multiple frost mages similarly helps with Winter's Chill. Curse of elements / shadows has a noticable effect as well. Hell we have 25 man raids that are sometimes missing an entire class, not just a single talent spec. quote: Yes but with most Arcane mages at my level of raiding they dont have the 13k mana pool (Fire/Frost have even less) so im hopeing that will offset the OOM factor it seems to be working i usualy oom totaly at about 10 % on most higher end bosses and the lesser bosses i dont oom on :) im intrested to see how i do next time i get in to a raid that the leader benchmark with wws :) Ok, let's look at your example. For argument's sake let's say you fight a boss and for 90% of his health you do 1000 DPS then for the last 10% you do 200 DPS. Assuming his health drops steadily the whole fight and that the fight is (arbitrarily) 100 seconds you'll find your damage is: 90 seconds x 1000 DPS = 90,000 dmg + 10 seconds x 200 DPS = 2,000 dmg and your DPS is then 92,000 damage / 100 seconds = 920 DPS Going oom for the last 10% of the fight has lowered your effective DPS by 8% than having mana the whole fight would. quote: i dont like WWS but it seems to be the new thing to benchmark yourself by :) WWS is, as you say, a way to benchmark yourself. Benchmarking is itself a way to measure performance and improvement. Therefore WWS is a way for you to measure your own performance and improvement. WoW is a game yes, but in a group endeavor people expect you to pull your weight and contribute; WWS let's you see how well you are doing that and identify areas in which you can improve. Also , WWS is increasingly looked at by people who slot raids, so it behooves you to make use of it when possible. |
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| Alaunt edited this message on Thursday March 6, 2008 at 14:16 | ||
| Sparkfist | #286505 Thursday March 6, 2008 at 19:43 | |
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Sacrafice to the Loot God. |
Im still not sure as to how int stacking isnt good when i armory some of these posts i see stats very close to mine in terms of spell dmg/crit my question is how am i sacraficeing raw spelldmg and crit if my stats are telling me im on par? am i totaly gimping my self as in with my current gear if i replaced it would i be at a much higher crit/spell dmg ? keeping in mind i have yet to go anywhere other than the 10 mans and the 2 short 25 mans grull and mags.
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| Pantzeri | #286577 Friday March 7, 2008 at 08:40 | |
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quote: Originally posted by Sparkfist: Im still not sure as to how int stacking isnt good when i armory some of these posts i see stats very close to mine in terms of spell dmg/crit my question is how am i sacraficeing raw spelldmg and crit if my stats are telling me im on par? am i totaly gimping my self as in with my current gear if i replaced it would i be at a much higher crit/spell dmg ? keeping in mind i have yet to go anywhere other than the 10 mans and the 2 short 25 mans grull and mags. I'd suggest you read this thread, which Kaeble has posted already http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t18441-mage_sweet_informational_thread/ and look into this: http://www.magegraf.com/mage_dps.zip Your hit is terrible, you can have over 9000 spell damage, but if it doesn't hit the boss, you aren't doing DPS, --
Pantzeri - Respec Addicted Paladin Pulsaria - Terribad Fire Spec'd mage |
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| kaeble | #286732 Friday March 7, 2008 at 16:10 | |
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We have given you the info we have Sparkfist. If you can make arcane work for you great. Each tree has its strengths and weaknesses. Knowing those helps to play each spec. You have picked a tough raiding spec with arcane because its a mana hog. Its not a sustainable spec because most of the fights are very long. If you can't last the whole fight then it might be the difference between a kill or a wipe. Mages right now are at a disadvantage due to our poor scaling with gear, our mana regen, and our group synergy. So just make sure that you read those threads then decide what you want to do. They have been proven with alot of theorycrafting. But in the end you must decide what you want to do. Good luck.
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This had to be my new sig: New and exciting 51 Mage talents! Arcane Garbage, Living Bomb, and Deep Shit. |
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| Daphyd | #286759 Friday March 7, 2008 at 17:46 | |
Just Daph |
I think it's fun, and worthwhile, to exercise your own Gear/Spec builds and see how they go. When doing something out of the norm, I'd just be sure to answer the issues that the "usual" builds address. A clear one to me is hit cap: Anything less than 133 or so for ANY mage spec is gimping yourself on a boss fight. A miss is a huge loss of time and damage. The other variables you can experiment with, as long as you are thinking about the impact of your variance from the "cookie cutter" mage builds. As far as talent allocation, they are currently: Arcane IV: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/mage/talents.html?2520050300030150333125000000000000000000000000530020010000000000000 Arcane Pyro http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/mage/talents.html?2520050300030150333125050320001000000000000000000000000000000000000 Arcane Fire http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/mage/talents.html?2520050300030150333125050320001000000000000000000000000000000000000 Arcane Frost http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/mage/talents.html?2300450300030150330125000000000000000000000000535000310030010000000 Fire http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/mage/talents.html?2300050000000000000000050520201230333105312510030000000000000000000 Fire IV http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/mage/talents.html?2300050000000000000000050520201230333105312510030000000000000000000 Frost w/clearcast http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/mage/talents.html?2300050000000000000000050520201230333105312510030000000000000000000 Deep Frost http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/mage/talents.html?0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000535020310035013250551 Frost Meditation http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/mage/talents.html?2300250300030000000000000000000000000000000000535020310230010250551 Get WWS on every fight you are on and look at your results as you try different gear/spec. Compare your performance to comparable fights from folks in other raid groups. Key factors I look up in WWS reports in evaluating my performance with regard to gear and spec choices are my miss rate, my peak dps, my overall damage, and my dps time %. Other factors are more subjective. Some questions I ask myself: Do I run out of mana on a fight or do I get stuck with no options but to wand? Am I effectively able to apply my peak dps when I want to, and when the raid needs it, or am I only able to keep up a steady stream? How does it "feel"? Do I have enough hit points to stay up, or am I dying more than most? Am I able to control my aggro easily or is my DPS so peaky I have to hold back? --
   "Because those who mind don't matter, And those who matter don't mind." -- Dr. Suess |
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| karbynna | #287062 Monday March 10, 2008 at 10:57 | |
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Just to point out, Sparkfist does have pretty decent spell hit. He's sitting at about 14%. Yes it's not 16%, but it's still pretty decent. Arcane focus ftw? |
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