| Sparkfist | #280536 Thursday January 31, 2008 at 03:07 | |
Sacrafice to the Loot God. |
Just wanting to see what kind of improvements you guys can come up with for me based on my gear if ya got the time.. looking to max my Mana(20k goal) , then spell haste, then spell dmg. anything you could help with would be awsome. --
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| Pantzeri | #280552 Thursday January 31, 2008 at 10:19 | |
Client 10 |
quote: Originally posted by Sparkfist: Just wanting to see what kind of improvements you guys can come up with for me based on my gear if ya got the time.. looking to max my Mana(20k goal) , then spell haste, then spell dmg. anything you could help with would be awsome. You actually want to max out your spell hit, (I believe 162 is the cap), and then dmg (the cap for that is around 1200, correct me if I'm wrong), and then haste when you can get the gear, (haste gear is in HT/BT/Badges/ZA, meaning you'll be doing lots of heroics/Kara/Tier 5 instances) 20k mana is a very hard to reach, if not impossible (unbuffed)goal at this point, and if you're looking to get it buffed, I can't imagine the amount of buffs you have to get to reach that. Really with the changes in gems and evo, my mana pool for Pulsaria is 10k buffed with AI, and I haven't had any major mana problems, (I haven't had to use mage armor for any fights post 2.3), I'm not sure what high end mages have for a mana pool. --
Pantzeri - Respec Addicted Paladin Pulsaria - Terribad Fire Spec'd mage |
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| Zaddy | #280561 Thursday January 31, 2008 at 10:47 | |
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Heal Sauce and Assplosions |
I'm not aware of a +damage cap. That would righteously suck. Pantz is right about one thing for certain, +spell hit is the thing to work on first. Depending upon your spec it varies a bit, but 162 is very common with the frost talents. The goals for my mage are: +hit (within 10 now!) +1000 spellpower to all classes (just under 900 now, over 900 with buffs). Some spell haste (I haven't figured out how yet that works in for what I want. +33% crit (with buffs) for scorch/fire blast when I'm deep fire spec'd (just under that now) 13k mana buffed (over 11k now) 9k health buffed I believe all those goals are achievable at the same time, but I might be wrong. I've noticed a fair bit of my gear is situational as well. I have gear with less +hit for lower mobs, in which my spellpower can easily go over 900 without buffs, (fire) without sacrificing much else, and also improving my crit. Now, I don't consider myself to be a high end mage, but I'm a reasonably good one, I think. I disagree with Pantz on the mana pool. If you're raiding, which with the stated goals, I assume you are going to be, there are fights with mana burns and whatnot which make the mana pool very nice to have. Even fights like Illhoof, ifyou do it without warlocks (yes, done it several times that way, but it's nice to have at least 2 mages then) are very taxing on the mana pool. In general I've never had a problem with my 10k (unbuffed) mana pool though. 20k Mana though, i think is unrealistic. I can't imagine gear that would get you there without sacrificing a lot of other important stats. Even then I'm not sure if it's even possible. I'd be far more surprised if it was. --
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| kaeble | #280565 Thursday January 31, 2008 at 11:02 | |
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Yeah Pantz is right. You have to max out +hit. Since you are arcane you only need 76 +hit but you need to max out arcane focus for that rating. You need to figure out how to put 4 more points into arcane focus. As far as arcane spec, ask Alaunt how to maximize it. He is an awesome arcane specced mage. Is this build you have for pvp? I am assuming that. Pve focus is different. Mana shouldn't be a problem. Usually you are raiding with a shadow priest. If not, then you just need to use your mana gems and pots right when you need them so the cooldown is available later on. As soon as I am down 2400 mana or so I pop the mana gem. Once I get down 2000 again I pop a pot. You also have evocation to help with mana. Get a staff weapon off the AH with alot of int and enchant it with int. Put that on when you evocate and you inflate your mana pool. You regen more mana that way. Not sure if there is a cap on damage though. I really don't think there is one. Go to the Elitist Jerks forums. They have a real good write up on mages and abilities.
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This had to be my new sig: New and exciting 51 Mage talents! Arcane Garbage, Living Bomb, and Deep Shit. |
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| kaeble | #280573 Thursday January 31, 2008 at 11:16 | |
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Take a look at this. Very good info. http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t18441-mage_sweet_informational_thread/ --
This had to be my new sig: New and exciting 51 Mage talents! Arcane Garbage, Living Bomb, and Deep Shit. |
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| Kahlil | #280577 Thursday January 31, 2008 at 11:19 | |
Old Man |
http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t18441-mage_sweet_informational_thread/ is the thread Kaeble is primarily mentioning I think, we've talked a bit about it before. In short, stat importance is hit(till cap) >> crit >> Damage >> Int when looking at damage for the duration of a fight. A mana pool matters of course, but often playing well (effective use of spell selection, pots, gems, etc) will ensure you don't run out of mana by effectively using what you have and you can focus your gear on pure damage output. The previously mentioned 4 points in AF will help, as will acquiring 31 more hit rating in gear(A couple gems, maybe a new glove enchant). From there, I'd look at your spell rotation, and ensure it's optimal for an Arcane mage. Overall though, you did rather well in ZA this week. :) --
Korinth, Dwarven Tnak Kahlil, Jumping Mage (Caster Lead v1.0, Lead Emeritus, BR Tank Lead Emeritus, Easterners Charter Lead) "It is well to give when asked but it is better to give unasked, through understanding." - Kahlil Gibran |
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| kaeble | #280582 Thursday January 31, 2008 at 11:24 | |
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Yeah Kahlil pointed me toward that link. Good info in that thread. I like Elitist Jerks forums. They boot trolls and you can get some good conversations going about mages without being called down on.
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This had to be my new sig: New and exciting 51 Mage talents! Arcane Garbage, Living Bomb, and Deep Shit. |
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| Sparkfist | #280629 Thursday January 31, 2008 at 14:36 | |
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Sacrafice to the Loot God. |
Yea the spec it shows now its a little off i was .. distracted lastnight and respecd for some strange reason i usualy have the spell hit in arcane maxxed.. right now with some raid buffs i can get up to 14k mana. as far as mana goes i run out of mana all the time.. i play my mage to destroy trash as soon as its in range to die. i like clearing raid trash as fast as i can and to do that i need huge burst ( AB spam ) and a even bigger mana pool.. i was in ZA and i could hardly keep my mana up thru the chain pulls in some areas as were were trying to beat the 3rd chest timer... im working on the hit gear slowly but i dont wanna sacrafice what i have to gem my self with spell hit.
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| Kahlil | #280639 Thursday January 31, 2008 at 15:15 | |
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Old Man |
What's your goal? Do more damage on trash with breaks between pulls? Do more damage on chain pulling trash? Do more damage on 'burn down' bosses? Do more damage on endurance bosses? Or is simply to be able to AB spam as much as possible? Stacking int will help that last one, but it's ultimately detrimental to the others (Though each of those has different answers as well) because of the opportunity cost of stacking that int instead of other stats that more effectively boost damage. --
Korinth, Dwarven Tnak Kahlil, Jumping Mage (Caster Lead v1.0, Lead Emeritus, BR Tank Lead Emeritus, Easterners Charter Lead) "It is well to give when asked but it is better to give unasked, through understanding." - Kahlil Gibran |
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| kaeble | #280641 Thursday January 31, 2008 at 15:19 | |
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Just get to your max of 76 once you have the 5/5 AF. You don't have to get to it exactly but you can get close. Arcane is a real mana intensive spec. You might have to work on your spell rotation to try to help out your mana. If you are wanting to raid, your focus should be on bosses not trash. Some pulls requires us to sheep first then dps. If your poly is resisted, then someone or you can die. Even a big mana pool will not help out on AB spam.
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This had to be my new sig: New and exciting 51 Mage talents! Arcane Garbage, Living Bomb, and Deep Shit. |
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| Sparkfist | #280649 Thursday January 31, 2008 at 16:39 | |
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Sacrafice to the Loot God. |
Well as far as raiding goes i know my spec is totaly wrong. But seeing how i dont raid everyday for hours on end i need to keep my slef open for other things like running old dungeons (big mana pool helps for manashield tanking) alot of my regular play time is spent helping guildies level from 20-70 so i need to be able to do a variaty of diffrent things.. i find that trash killing is where i preform better than everywhere else i try to bring to the groups the ability to spend more time on bosses than trying to clear trash. I went back to the heavy arcane build because imp scorch isnt that helpful for me and yea spell rotations are still awkward because i have spell haste. are there any specific tricks anyof you know that are essential for mages? also i only use omen for addon's.. im trying to stay away from a new ui because i dont wanna relearn button placements and all that jazz. thanks this has been most informative lets keep it rollin :) alot of info to decode my head hurts haha.. PS. that link to the mage thred says that deep arcane is the worst spec? i dunno about that.. --
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| kaeble | #280655 Thursday January 31, 2008 at 17:21 | |
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If you read it, it gives the reasons that is it one of the worst at damage on longer fights. It takes a skilled mage to be able to pull that spec off and alot of spirit gear. Wow can't believe I said that. Plato wins. Hehe.
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This had to be my new sig: New and exciting 51 Mage talents! Arcane Garbage, Living Bomb, and Deep Shit. |
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| Daphyd | #280864 Saturday February 2, 2008 at 01:46 | |
Just Daph |
The reasons it gives makes sense and are valid, though I find arcane/frost gives me the greatest control over mana usage, and dps, and is a great build if one has been gearing up for frost previously. The problem with a transition to fire is that the need for hit and crit just isn't there for frost, and fire is gimped without those stats. Arcane/frost, however, doesn't need the high hit, and benefits well from high overall plus damage. Frost itself is too dependent on the somewhat unreliable existence of the water elemental to keep dps up in a raiding environment, and does not scale up as well as Arcane, esp. when 2/5 T5 bonus is achieved. Here's my numbers as frost: http://wowwebstats.com/451hjb3fi1hp5?s=4082-4577 And now with arcane frost (only significant gear change was an upgrade from t4 to t5 pants) http://wowwebstats.com/galxn2gv25y23?s=5579-6221 --
   "Because those who mind don't matter, And those who matter don't mind." -- Dr. Suess |
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| Gerad | #280884 Saturday February 2, 2008 at 10:08 | |
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Member |
I'd second the "Go ask Alaunt" Comment when it comes to Arcane mages. Though my mage is only 66, I recently (aka 2.3) respec'd Arcane/Frost with alot of his advice, and I noticed not only a huge DPS increase (I was deep frost), but my survivability was still fine (Due to some of the frost talents) while solo-ing, and overall it was a much more fun spec for me. I can't wait until she's 70 and I'm able to customize her further with gear and learn how to raid with her. Usually while solo-ing I can Frostbolt, ABx2, Fire Blast = dead mob before they get to me, and I only have to drink every 5 or so mobs. I'm not exactly sure what my numbers "should" be, but I'm running ~450 dps, which is about 75 dps more than my deep frost build. In instances on trash I can generally keep up a decent AB spam, though with her current gear I go back to Frostbolts primarily for longevity on bosses, with some AB tossed into the mix. I usually use mage armor, and her gear primarily has Int/Spirit/Spelldam and some crit. Oh and Arcane Power + Icy Veins is a fun burst combo. But yeah. Just my 2c, as I said, only 66 currently ;) It'll be interesting to see how the 2.4 spellhaste change effects the builds, too. (provided it makes it to live). Cheers. |
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| Cassielle | #280925 Saturday February 2, 2008 at 15:08 | |
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Just looking at some numbers from other peoples wws posts.. im wondering how there getting 6k+ frostbolts as well as how to keep there mana up in longer fights i usualy do the abx4, am,scorch/firblast but with a huge mana pool i still oom fast.. most of the time i dont even get to 4 blasts because i have to reposition or deal with some other factor on a boss. Edit: oops... --
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