| Etul | » #278070 Tuesday January 15, 2008 at 03:02 | |
From death comes mana |
I will put edits in itallics.... One of my big frustrations with raiding is how much time we spend not raiding. Mostly this amounts to waiting for people to run/eat/buff/rez/afk. In general people are pretty good at recovering from a wipe (we have all done it enough) but a single mistake holds everyone up. In most professions when something has to be done exactly right every time there is a written procedure and you tick off each step. So here is an attempt at a procedure for how to get ready. Ideally this should let us pull within 4 minutes of a wipe, though if people can't be rezzed without triggering the boss it will take longer. At this stage I am looking for suggestions and possible revisions. I would also like people to tell me in class specific items for the check off list. (ie pets, minions, shouts….) Once I have a reasonably final version I will try and compress it to a 1-page symbolic summary sheet people can print off and use during raids. I would also like to work on speeding up wipe recovery like we work on bosses - we monitor our performance (how long it takes) and try suggestions to improve. # Resurrections - Theoretically should take <2min - Raid leader calls for first resurrection. Preferably this is someone who was DIed or Soulstoned. Only if none of those work a shaman should be asked to self rez. - All rezzers should run a mod to make sure they don't try and rez people that others are already rezzing. - Drink as needed - Resurrect other rezzers first. - If you are in a position where you can't be resurrected without aggroing the boss, release, and /ra that you are running # Status Calls - text /ra if have yellow/red gear and need a repairbot/repair break or need a bio/afk. - If you will be AFK, give an expected time in /ra and flag yourself afk. - Raid leaders should call out next planned break so people can decide if they can wait. - deal with any new assignments, discuss any new strategies - call for a mage to put out drinks table if you need more soggy biscuits # Gather up - Everyone needs to be in proximity to get buffs, so meet back at buffing location - Warlocks should summon people who are far away ASAP - Once in, EAT & DRINK if you need to # As you have time - Drink / Eat - Eat Buff Food # Raid leader ready checks to make sure everyone is in proximity of buffing zone Raid leader: /rw All In for Buffs? /readycheck # Click Yes when you are in the buffing zone - Do not click yes if you aren’t ready to go (ie need an afk, need more explanation of the fight). After this point the clock is running on all the buffs and the pull has to be ASAP. # Begin Buffs Raid Leader - When everyone responds 'yes' send out: /rw BUFFS AWAY!! - At this point it should be under 2min until pull. From here out there should be no AFKs, treat this like part of the actual fight # Start buffing - Buff your assigned groups - Always use the group buffs on everyone. Reagents are cheap; don't try and save them by putting on cheap buffs as they will end up expiring at odd times. One missed buff slows everyone down, so go the easy way and use the group buffs everywhere you are assigned to. - Keeping the buffs together should prevent rebuffs if the raid stops for a long afk after short buffs like shadow protection (20min) - It also saves on Flask time since flasks can be take just before the fight Priests: - Divine Spirit - Prayer of Fortification - Prayer of Shadow Protection Druids: - Gift of the wild - Thorns Mages: - Arcane Brilliance Paladins: (as assigned) - Blessing of Kings - Blessing of Might - Blessing of Salvation - Blessing of Light Warlocks - Put out soulwells Warriors/Rogues/Hunters - Help Warlocks conjuring Everyone: - Eat Buff Food - Take Elixirs / Flasks - Use weapon enhancements (Wizard Oil, Mana Oil, Sharpening, weighting) - Eat / Drink for Mana & Health - Set form for the fight - Do self-cast buffs (ie Inner Fire) # Setup recovery plan - RL directs a warlock to Soulstone a rezzer preferably one who is less likely to die within the bosses aggro range - Try to keep Shaman self resurrection in case the soulstone is unusable or gets used in the fight - Paladins check their DI cooldown. # Raid Leader /rw Final Check /readycheck - Answer yes when you have checked off the list below - Food buff - Weapon enhancement - Guardian elixir (or Flask) - Battle elixir - Form? - Self Buffs (ie: Inner fire…) - DS - Fort - Int - Gift of the wild - Thorns - Blessings - Correct Gear (unless you plan to hit Illidan with your riding crop...) - Health & Mana Full Click off unwanted buffs - Ie tanks remove salvation # Once everyone answers yes: /rw Begin the Attack! - The raid leader directs the puller to launch the attack --
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| Etul edited this message on Tuesday January 15, 2008 at 14:46 | ||
| Kahly | » #278090 Tuesday January 15, 2008 at 08:43 | |
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Life will find a way. |
I actually took off my "Kahly is ressing Etul" macro because no one paid a bit of attention to it anyway. We do need to start working together on this. It's very frustrating to get all the way through your res cast timer just to see them pop up from someone else. Now that we have soggy biscuits available to everyone, everyone needs to start eating when they get back to the buffing location. Why should I spend 1000 mana healing a tank back to full health when they could and should be eating. It's a waste of time and mana. I am not sure we need a ready check for when people are in buffing range. My UI shows me clearly when people are out of range. I would assume that most buffing classes would have a similar UI out of sheer frustration if nothing else. AFK - side note DB and Friends tries really hard to give good breaks during our raids. We ask that our raiders try not to go AFK at other times. However, We do understand that occasionally you will need to go AFK unexpectedly. Therefore if you must take an unscheduled AFK: a) Try to keep it under a minute and Flag yourself AFK. b) If you are going to be gone longer than 2 min, Flag AFK and let your class lead know. Rather than everyone else waiting around 5 min for you to clean up that shattered glass in your kitchen, we can call a raid break so everyone can take care of something and we have fewer interruptions later. (We won't mention who it was that spilled an ENTIRE cup of coffee in her keyboard during one raid, but her name begins with K) --
Kahly - Holy Priest Avril - Fire Mage |
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| Etul | » #278112 Tuesday January 15, 2008 at 12:21 | |
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From death comes mana |
good comments Kahly, keep them coming. I made a couple of changes from your suggestions. Part of the advantage of a ready check and calling the beginning of buffs is that everyone puts up buffs at the same time, and they don't run down before the fight. On the long buffs this isn't a big deal. On the short (ie 10 or 20min - like shadow protection) buffs if we wait too long before pulling we have to rebuff before going. By calling a start to buffing we make sure the short buffs aren't run down too much. --
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| Etul edited this message on Tuesday January 15, 2008 at 12:59 | ||
| Alissah | » #278126 Tuesday January 15, 2008 at 14:14 | |
Wanderlust Lead |
I don't like the clutter of rez macros, however, I have this nifty little thing called a rez monitor, and you know it shows who people are rezzing.. and I pay attention to that. If you're having issues with people rezzing the same person before you, I'd suggest that you get that and watch it. Macros are nice, but I'm not going to tell you I'm already rezzing someone that you just started rezzing, it will slow my next rez down potentially because I'm typing ;), at least that's my theory. The mod helps alot, tells who everyone is rezzing and you can see who/if multiple people are rezzing the same person. Anyway, just another little thing that will help with rezzing. Some of you may have this and not know about it.. you just need to turn it on. I believe it is built in with Deadly Boss Mods, but I'm not entirely 100% it's been a long time since I've not had it up. |
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| Kiori | » #278128 Tuesday January 15, 2008 at 14:20 | |
Boomin' Healsauce |
I'll agree, nothing can get old faster than going through and tossing 10 min thorns (or in pallies' case, short blesses for complex talent classes such as us druids) on all the necessary people because we're "oh oh gonna pull now!!" and then end up sitting there watching it all tick off. Finally we're starting to go and I have to rebuff 'em all over again as tanks are charging down to the fray. Flasks are likely of the most expensive items, food also troublesome at times, and quite frankly, they're not easily replaceable by everyone. It'd be great to be able to maximize the efficiency of movement throughout an instance. I think that 4 min might be a bit tight for some folks given oddball circumstances, but it would be fantastic to see this kind of momentum. Also, there are some nice lil rezz monitors out there that are minimalistic that would be quite helpful for rezzers to utilize. I'll see about snagging a link for one or two later. //edit// oRA2 DOES in fact have a built-in rezz monitor, btw. I've been recommending oRA2 over CTRaid for a long time and it's never failed its function. Here's the link on wowace.com --> http://www.wowace.com/wiki/ORA2 ...be aware, oRA2 updates almost daily. No, it's NOT necessary to update it daily. It is, however, a good idea to do so regularly to help catch up those lil timers, bugs, and new items as they come out. //edit// On a side note, Gift of the Wild is the druid group buff; Mark is only the short timed buff. --
"Bring it on~!" Kiori .¤. Druid - Boomin' Healsauce Arianna .¤. Warrior - Tankin' Basher Kryss .¤. Hunter - Pew-Pew |
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| Alissah | » #278139 Tuesday January 15, 2008 at 14:36 | |
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Wanderlust Lead |
Ah ORA2 has it, good good, glad someone knew off the top of their head ^-^ | |
| Etul | » #278140 Tuesday January 15, 2008 at 14:42 | |
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From death comes mana |
Great comments, Kiori and Alissiah I have changed the bit about gift, added thorns, and changed to asking rezzers to have a mod instead of a macro. 4 min wipe-to-pull is tight, it is a target to aim for. We won't be able to make it on every wipe, especially if people have to run. I see this as important to keep up raid momentum. This is something that will pay dividends on every boss, even ones we haven't met yet, since we can spend more time attacking them. --
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| Kahly | » #278155 Tuesday January 15, 2008 at 16:17 | |
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Life will find a way. |
I really try to keep an absolute minimum of Mods on my computer. I really don't want to add a mod for ressing when using a macro can accomplish the same thing without endangering my account and my computer.
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Kahly - Holy Priest Avril - Fire Mage |
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| Alissah | » #278162 Tuesday January 15, 2008 at 16:46 | |
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Wanderlust Lead |
Most raiding guilds (that I have been in) use Ora2 for main tank windows, or at least set them up so that they can be used. It's not really an extra mod really. If you've never used main tank windows, it's actually kinda nifty, you set up the tanks that will be tanking the encounter and you have them in their own little pop up (which I believe if you don't like can just be turned off). It doesn't take up much memory and is really nifty for the rez monitor, in the interest of time, AND isn't spammy like a macro. The oRA2 is typically put in kill order and also helps the healing leads and healers by having the tanks up in the kill order so that after the kill order has been established, the healers know who is tanking what, especially when they're not used to the group or tanks weren't specified as to who was tanking what mob. It has a lot of uses really if it's being maximized in usage. However, I do understand that there may be people that don't want to add another mod to their repertoire. If all the healers or at least most have it though, rezzing does become more efficient as long as people are watching the rez monitor. |
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| Bleucheese | » #278164 Tuesday January 15, 2008 at 16:53 | |
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Charter Warrior |
Another way to speed up buffing: remove buff assignments (e.g. "X buffs groups 1-2, Y buffs 3-4, Z buffs group 5") entirely. I've found this literally doubles buffing speed. Felada and I have been thinking about adding a rule that if you don't buff you need to pay the people who are doing it 1g to enhance fairness ... but if you are going for speed, removing the buff assignments does it hands down. If one person is forgetful after a single wipe, or if that person is one of the last to be rezzed / doesn't have mana, then the buffs happen much later. This way, whoever's up and has the mana can buff. | |
| Kiori | » #278167 Tuesday January 15, 2008 at 17:24 | |
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Boomin' Healsauce |
quote: Originally posted by Bleucheese: Another way to speed up buffing: remove buff assignments (e.g. "X buffs groups 1-2, Y buffs 3-4, Z buffs group 5") entirely. I've found this literally doubles buffing speed. Felada and I have been thinking about adding a rule that if you don't buff you need to pay the people who are doing it 1g to enhance fairness ... but if you are going for speed, removing the buff assignments does it hands down. If one person is forgetful after a single wipe, or if that person is one of the last to be rezzed / doesn't have mana, then the buffs happen much later. This way, whoever's up and has the mana can buff. This is actually a great idea. For so long I was used to being the ONLY imp paw druid in a raid and just tend to bring extra stuff with me just in case. However, it gets expensive, especially when there are as many as 4 other people that effectively "could" be paying their part of it through reagents. It's certainly not a requirement, but I also like the idea of just getting in there and getting it done. Toss me your mats and I'll cover it... I pretty much tend to anyways. Haha.. As to oRA2... it's something most raiding groups require, including, typically, LOs. It's small, minimalsitc, and doesn't really do automation (that's been taken out of the game more or less). What it offers is information and convenience. Main Tank windows, Player Tank windows (your own chosen targets to keep on your screen wherever you desire it placed), Cooldown Monitor for BRs, Soul Stones, etc, and also a Resurection Monitor (to see when someone's already being rezzed). It's not a raid frame replacement and it's not a threat of zapping up your resources based on the programming style (Ace); it further helps communication with the leads in the most efficient manner possible. It also plays well with other mods for those that are interested. By having something that knocks out so much for so little existence, it really helps a raid run efficiently, primarily for the leads who can do so much behind the scenes without having to waste time asking questions, doing multiple ready checks and votes for answers, etc. Having used it for many things when I lead raids that most the rest of the raid doesn't get to bother with (like durability, zone checking, etc), I've found it a wonderful tool overall. Guess I'm just singing to the choir for most on this, but hey.. it's handy. :) Plus, it helps knock out extra spam! Wee. --
"Bring it on~!" Kiori .¤. Druid - Boomin' Healsauce Arianna .¤. Warrior - Tankin' Basher Kryss .¤. Hunter - Pew-Pew |
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| Etul | » #278168 Tuesday January 15, 2008 at 17:26 | |
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From death comes mana |
quote: Originally posted by Bleucheese: Another way to speed up buffing: remove buff assignments (e.g. "X buffs groups 1-2, Y buffs 3-4, Z buffs group 5") entirely. I've found this literally doubles buffing speed. Felada and I have been thinking about adding a rule that if you don't buff you need to pay the people who are doing it 1g to enhance fairness ... but if you are going for speed, removing the buff assignments does it hands down. If one person is forgetful after a single wipe, or if that person is one of the last to be rezzed / doesn't have mana, then the buffs happen much later. This way, whoever's up and has the mana can buff. Interesting idea, I will see if I can talk leads into experimenting with it on some DB&F raids. The down side of it is people wasting mana and reagents buffing over again. Another one to try would be 'do assigned, then cover anyone not buffed incase their assigned buffer is oom' --
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| Bleucheese | » #278171 Tuesday January 15, 2008 at 18:01 | |
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Charter Warrior |
Well, as far as mana, mana isn't really an issue with buffing anymore now that they reduced the cost of buffing so significantly. I can buff the entire raid (or just about) on one mana pool. As far as reagents, there's not that much overlap going on (though there is a little bit :) and it seems like the cost is worth it. I've been doing it this way in the Night Watch raids when I am healer lead and it's worked out pretty well. | |
| Darckence | » #278190 Tuesday January 15, 2008 at 19:44 | |
Cloth: Not just for Paladins |
I've sort of found that the best way to have quick turn-around from wipes is to make sure your raiders take as much initiative as possible in getting ready to go again, and not rely on the raid leader. If I'm leading a raid, the time after a wipe is when I'm busiest checking on what went wrong, and making sure any strategy changes to avoid another wipe are communicated effectively. Micro-managing everyone elses buffs just makes recovery slower. Everyone who is doing an hour-long buff should be running a mod that will let them make sure everyone in their group is in range, and they should buff immediately. If it takes so long to recover from a wipe that hour long buffs will fade, you have bigger problems. People should be watching their own durability and make sure it is acknowledged in raid when they are a death or two from needing to repair, so the raid leader can announce if a bot will be dropped, or whether you are close enough to raid end time that it won't be needed. People should also be able to choose a time to go (briefly) afk for restroom / drink breaks in a way that won't slow the raid down at all (while rezzes are happening is good). When I see everyone is in range and check that hour long buffs are up, assuming there are no tactics hold ups, generally make an announcement over vent that we are about ready to go and to get short term and consumable buffs up, and do a ready check at the same time. When everyone clicks ready, tell them to get to position, and ask the MT to pull, or MD pull depending on the encounter. While I don't think we have ever timed our wipe recovery, we generally find the slowest aspect is strategic tuning rather than the mechanics of recovery. --
Livueta ~ Hunter Ameranthe ~ Warrior Darckence ~ Druid |
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| brunson | » #278499 Thursday January 17, 2008 at 13:09 | |
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Member |
quote: Originally posted by Etul: # Resurrections - Theoretically should take <2min - Raid leader calls for first resurrection. Preferably this is someone who was DIed or Soulstoned. Only if none of those work a shaman should be asked to self rez. i dont think a raid leader neeeds to call for this unless its a shamen self rez. quote: while this would be ideal, getting someone to change thier mods is worse then ******censored cause he pissed enough people off this week*****Originally posted by Etul: - All rezzers should run a mod to make sure they don't try and rez people that others are already rezzing. quote: Originally posted by Etul: - Drink as needed - Resurrect other rezzers first. - If you are in a position where you can't be resurrected without aggroing the boss, release, and /ra that you are running wow i would love if people said they released then said something once back in. quote: /ra or /whisper your raid leader. Alot of times when there is goofing off in /ra, i dont pay too much attention to it.Originally posted by Etul: # Status Calls - text /ra if have yellow/red gear and need a repairbot/repair break or need a bio/afk. quote: Originally posted by Etul: - If you will be AFK, give an expected time in /ra and flag yourself afk. WOW i love this idea quote: Originally posted by Etul: - Raid leaders should call out next planned break so people can decide if they can wait. I wish it could be like this. occasionally people will tell us before hand when they need to afk. For example telling the RL that at 3pm they need to go pick up thier sister from school. But most of the time, RL's get a tell saying I need to afk for 20 min right now, then they leave. quote: Originally posted by Etul: # Raid leader ready checks to make sure everyone is in proximity of buffing zone Raid leader: /rw All In for Buffs? /readycheck # Click Yes when you are in the buffing zone - Do not click yes if you aren’t ready to go (ie need an afk, need more explanation of the fight). After this point the clock is running on all the buffs and the pull has to be ASAP. # Begin Buffs Raid Leader - When everyone responds 'yes' send out: /rw BUFFS AWAY!! - At this point it should be under 2min until pull. From here out there should be no AFKs, treat this like part of the actual fight i dont think a ready check is needed here. If people are afk they should have thier afk flag up. hour long and even half hour long buffs should be able to go up as soon as everyone in your assigned group is in range. only those buffs that are 10 or maybe 20 mins long need special consideration. The only 10 min long ones are thorns or 10 mn salv's. Since only a few people need these two buffs, they can wait till the last ready check before the pull. the mana should be regen'd by the time the actall pull happens. That pretty much leaves shadow prot buff. Only a few bosses require this buff. Maybe special consideration should be given for this buff. When the final ready check is given, a call for shadow prot and a very quick drink. As for food, potions, and weapon buffs, I persnally do these when the final ready check goes out. It takes aprox. 15 sec to do all of these, and there is more then enough time from the start of the ready check to the actual pull. quote: Originally posted by Etul: # Setup recovery plan - RL directs a warlock to Soulstone a rezzer preferably one who is less likely to die within the bosses aggro range - Try to keep Shaman self resurrection in case the soulstone is unusable or gets used in the fight - Paladins check their DI cooldown. warlocks should be talking in the caster channel to assign soulstone and needs to tell the RL when one isnt up. quote: Originally posted by Etul: Click off unwanted buffs - Ie tanks remove salvation every tanking class should have a macro for a spell that they use early and offten when tanking that includes /script CancelPlayerBuff("Blessing of Salvation"). |
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