| Seriel | #276926 Monday January 7, 2008 at 01:22 | |
~DESU |
Yeah without Mace Stun or some other viability I don't see Shadowstep performing competitively in Arena combat, perhaps if they had added the Cheat Death sort of effect instead of the movement speed increase it would be somewhat more useful. As is the movement increase is arbitrary, if someone really wants to snare you or CC you in Arena a 70% increase for a few seconds isn't really going to keep you in the game for long. |
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| Diamodd | #276942 Monday January 7, 2008 at 10:40 | |
Member |
The list of "Stuff" you get for using shadowstep (CP, speed, damage buff, super jump, lazer beam eyes and Im sure I missed at least something) is pretty long and probably going to increase once people still don't spec it for arenas. | |
| Amirite | #276952 Monday January 7, 2008 at 12:36 | |
السلام عليكم |
Someone reported that SS rogues are able to get up onto the starting rocks in EoTS, so careful up there ;)
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  "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - George Orwell "I look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character." - Martin Luther King, Jr. |
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| Erywin | #277036 Monday January 7, 2008 at 20:31 | |
AP Physical DPS Lead Stylin' |
With the new changes I was thinking of running something along the lines of for Ghue in arenas: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZG0EzbVt0MhoZxMe0MGRz I know Prep doesn't reset AR, but I use Prep religiously in Arenas, I love having two vanishs, sprints and evasion whenever I need them. Popping Prep has saved me time and time again in arenas. Thoughts? Cheers, E --
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| Starlear | #277309 Wednesday January 9, 2008 at 16:11 | |
Tanked Vael for 10% without evasion. |
quote: Originally posted by Erywin: With the new changes I was thinking of running something along the lines of for Ghue in arenas: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZG0EzbVt0MhoZxMe0MGRz I know Prep doesn't reset AR, but I use Prep religiously in Arenas, I love having two vanishs, sprints and evasion whenever I need them. Popping Prep has saved me time and time again in arenas. Thoughts? Cheers, E Hemo will still be better damage/energy than SS unless you are 41 into combat. AR/Prep IMO is sort of meh without 2 AR's, extremely unimpressive. I went back to 18/43/0 because the extra damage and killing ability to me is better than a second set of cooldowns when I rarely even need to use my first set. --
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| Diamodd | #277363 Thursday January 10, 2008 at 00:06 | |
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Im leaning toward 31/0/30 for arenas, but my partner is out of town for awhile so I haven't tested it out yet. I should be getting a Ashtongue trinket in the near future so the guaranteed crit is pretty appealing for SF, and the on-demand (non-dispel-able from what I know) burst of 2 CBs seems like the best way to go for me. The question I have is should I be putting 2 pts in Ruthlessness or in Vile Poisons? My gut tells me that Vile will be out preform Ruthlessness due to the dispel resistance, but I pve combat, and with SF I feel like I will be dropping more finishers than I am use to and my crit is around 26-27%. I just dont know if it will be enough to warrant using the points there. The other is Premed vs vigor. Really either one is only use able once, maybe twice in a 2s match. Premed leads me to an 5pt expose on plate/mail right away. Both seem highly situational at best, but I cant really feel which one will be best. |
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| Diamodd edited this message on Thursday January 10, 2008 at 08:54 | ||
| Starlear | #279062 Monday January 21, 2008 at 18:37 | |
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Tanked Vael for 10% without evasion. |
quote: Originally posted by Diamodd: Im leaning toward 31/0/30 for arenas, but my partner is out of town for awhile so I haven't tested it out yet. I should be getting a Ashtongue trinket in the near future so the guaranteed crit is pretty appealing for SF, and the on-demand (non-dispel-able from what I know) burst of 2 CBs seems like the best way to go for me. The question I have is should I be putting 2 pts in Ruthlessness or in Vile Poisons? My gut tells me that Vile will be out preform Ruthlessness due to the dispel resistance, but I pve combat, and with SF I feel like I will be dropping more finishers than I am use to and my crit is around 26-27%. I just dont know if it will be enough to warrant using the points there. The other is Premed vs vigor. Really either one is only use able once, maybe twice in a 2s match. Premed leads me to an 5pt expose on plate/mail right away. Both seem highly situational at best, but I cant really feel which one will be best. Honestly, SF Hemo is fairly lackluster as an arena spec, unless you're only doing 2v2, in which case it's decent. You'd probably be better off though with either 21/0/40 or a shadowstep spec, or full combat. Hemo without sinister calling kind of blows at the moment, your sustained damage will be silly amounts of low, even with an ashtongue trinket. --
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| Erywin | #279070 Monday January 21, 2008 at 19:12 | |
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AP Physical DPS Lead Stylin' |
So, finally respecced full Combat and it seemed alot better this time around in 2v2. It was alot more substantial killing power, I just had to keep close to my partner, human Subtlety Rogue, who would cover my arse from others :) Seemed to work well. Cheers, E --
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| Diamodd | #279112 Tuesday January 22, 2008 at 09:14 | |
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quote: Originally posted by Starlear: Honestly, SF Hemo is fairly lackluster as an arena spec, unless you're only doing 2v2, in which case it's decent. You'd probably be better off though with either 21/0/40 or a shadowstep spec, or full combat. Hemo without sinister calling kind of blows at the moment, your sustained damage will be silly amounts of low, even with an ashtongue trinket. After a couple weeks of using the spec I have to agree. I was worried about ShS cause there was no burst potential, but SF/Hemo dmg in general just sucks. Definatley not really capable of the offensive pressure I had hoped. Premed/CS/Imp Exp is nice to have in theory on Plate/Mail, but my dmg output definately doesn't take advantage fully. My 2s shadow priest partner is still gearing up, and has only about 8.5k hp (but it is increasing) so I can't really play the outlast game well. Im leaning towards deep combat for now. |
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| Starlear | #280637 Thursday January 31, 2008 at 15:09 | |
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Tanked Vael for 10% without evasion. |
quote: Originally posted by Diamodd: After a couple weeks of using the spec I have to agree. I was worried about ShS cause there was no burst potential, but SF/Hemo dmg in general just sucks. Definatley not really capable of the offensive pressure I had hoped. Premed/CS/Imp Exp is nice to have in theory on Plate/Mail, but my dmg output definately doesn't take advantage fully. My 2s shadow priest partner is still gearing up, and has only about 8.5k hp (but it is increasing) so I can't really play the outlast game well. Im leaning towards deep combat for now. I think you'd be pleasantly surprised with Shadowstep. What a lot of people do (and incorrectly, I might add) is look at pvp dps the same way they look at pve dps. And to a degree it's true. Hit rating, AP, combat potency, all that crap ultimately adds up and makes you do a lot more damage - ESPECIALLY dual wield spec. BUT. AND THIS IS A LARGE BUT. PvE mobs don't try and kite you (There might be a rare exception, but even fights you need to run in and out on, you're still just working the rotation for the most part). In a pvp environment, I have to say, shadowstep has been, for me, the highest pvp dps build. It's not because of the awesome dps talents. SC is badass, and deadliness is badass, but they're both way below anything in combat for sustained damage. It's not because of the burst. I don't have controlled burst at ALL, what with no cold blood or AR. All I have is vanish/premed/cs/shadowstep evisc, and in pvp I dont even do that usually, I just keep EA/Rupture/SND up and go for eviscerates only below 35% for dirty deeds. With the occasional KS in there. Shadowstep outdps's most other pvp builds for one reason and one reason alone: Time on Target. You are ALWAYS in the face of whatever you're killing, if you play the build right (Read: You don't use shadowstep IN stealth at all, you use it OUT of stealth). Mage novas you and runs away to cast a frostbolt for a shatter combo? Cloak of shadows and run at him. Elemental nova then blink after that? Shadowstep to him and kick him, then unload your shadowstep powered Evisc in his face. Druid kiting you? Shadowstep will let you shadowstep->KS that cyclone and smash on him for 6 sec in caster form unless he wastes his trinket. In which case you blind him. Rogue killing your partner, and he's evasioning? Vanish -> Cheapshot and smack on him. He trinket out of that? And hit a second evasion? Shadowstep -> Kidneyshot him right through evasion since you can't dodge attacks from behind in pvp. I personally prefer my extra points in a mix of sub/assassination (I'm a weird very deep sub spec for arena - 16/0/45). You COULD get even more mobility by putting the 20 points into combat and going 0/20/41 but after playing AR/Prep for all of S2, going back to Relentless Strikes with S3, I forgot how much I missed it and I dont think I can in good conscience give it up again. The best part about a shadowstep build, also, is that it has the tools, if used right, to counter basically any class. I can't stress enough how incredible Setup is for pvp. I highly recommend it for any build, instead of taking points in Master of Subtlety. This talent, combined with ghostly strike and evasion, lets you walk up to a warrior and just be like "Okay I'm just gonna kill him and force his healer to spam heals." Yes, I realize many of you argue with me in LO channel about how this isn't possible. But it is. Keeping garrote, EA, SnD, and Shadowstepped Rupture on a warrior, hurts. In fact, with GS up and evasion for emergencies, it hurts him a LOT more than it hurts you. In SHORT. I thoroughly endorse shadowstep. Though my spec is a bit custom-tailored, I can't praise Setup enough in a pvp environment. Setup, heightened senses, and Enveloping shadows are must have for serious arena, if you're going the shadowstep route, imo. With surefooted, 24% chance to resist piercing howl and frost nova? Yes please. GS/Evasion for perma-5 CP on warriors? Yes please. 19% chance to resist howl of terror, intimidating shout, psychic scream, and any other aoe? Yes please. --
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| Starlear | #280640 Thursday January 31, 2008 at 15:18 | |
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Tanked Vael for 10% without evasion. |
Also, it's sure as hell not a COMBAT build for dps in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. But it gets the job done in earlier raids (read: KZ/Gruul). http://wowwebstats.com/l6hexu2wy5rzy?s=5374-5755&m I was SS for that raid, and while I'm not putting out the 1200ish sustained I was as combat mace, I have to say I am impressed with the ability for it to do acceptable damage in some degree. Edit: 1950 unbuffed AP in pve gear, 260 hit, 27% crit, 0 expertise. However, significantly below hit cap due to no precision. --
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| Starlear edited this message on Thursday January 31, 2008 at 15:31 | ||
| Diamodd | #281011 Sunday February 3, 2008 at 09:40 | |
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I have to say that I finally got the chance to try this out in some arenas last night, and really had a good time. I'm currently on buisness and subject to crappy hotel latency and connection so alot of times after a ShS someone was already a few steps ahead of me, but overall it worked quite well for me. I went 7 and 4 last night in twos, and 3 of our losses came to warrior/druid which we still really havent found the answer to yet. Sap, blind, and fear just isnt enough time to take down a warrior for us. Without my latency I think we could have turned one maybe two of those losses into wins. I capped the night with a come from behind win by taking out a druid/rogue combo after my partner went down very early and I was at 10% hp. It was awesome. Once I work on making sure I use ShS before dropping Evis/Rupture Ill be alot better. |
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| Diamodd edited this message on Sunday February 3, 2008 at 11:29 | ||
| Starlear | #281041 Sunday February 3, 2008 at 14:23 | |
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Tanked Vael for 10% without evasion. |
quote: Originally posted by Diamodd: I have to say that I finally got the chance to try this out in some arenas last night, and really had a good time. I'm currently on buisness and subject to crappy hotel latency and connection so alot of times after a ShS someone was already a few steps ahead of me, but overall it worked quite well for me. I went 7 and 4 last night in twos, and 3 of our losses came to warrior/druid which we still really havent found the answer to yet. Sap, blind, and fear just isnt enough time to take down a warrior for us. Without my latency I think we could have turned one maybe two of those losses into wins. I capped the night with a come from behind win by taking out a druid/rogue combo after my partner went down very early and I was at 10% hp. It was awesome. Once I work on making sure I use ShS before dropping Evis/Rupture Ill be alot better. What's your 2v2 partner? I run with a disc priest and I just kill the warrior to the point the druid has to stand and heal because I'm hurting the warrior more than he's hurting me with Ghostly Strike up at every opportunity and evasion to let MS drop off. Druid standing and healing = mana burn lol and the times they've shifted to avoid the mana burns the warrior has died usually. We tend to completely ignore trying to CC the druid at all in any capacity because it takes DPS off of the warrior or healing off of me, and the druid will just make you chase him anyway so why bother. --
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| Starlear edited this message on Sunday February 3, 2008 at 14:46 | ||
| Diamodd | #281060 Sunday February 3, 2008 at 16:41 | |
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Funny you should mention Ghostly strike... I had 1pt left over when I respeced last night and couldn't for the life of me figure out what it was. Turns out it was ghostly strike, so I don't have it for now, but I should in the future. I run with a shadowpriest so pretty early on he is dropping shadowform to heal me. Cyclone and feral charge are a pain, but really by the time he is oom, the druid still has ~25% of his mana and all my cooldowns are blown. From there we just cant keep up and eventually I go down. Better use of Mana burn could hopefully tip the scales in our favor. The general idea is to tank the warrior and blow my cooldown early on so he can DPS the warrior also. I think if we can force the druid to cast HT and interrupt it, we stand a good chance of taking the match early. If it turns into an outlast battle I feel like things go south pretty quickly for us. In that case the battle really is won or lost by my partner it seems by either LoSing cyclone/charge or pressuring the druid with fear and silence. I think if we can keep the druid moving we stand a better shot of winning. Recovering from a full HT late in the game is pretty unlikely. |
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| Zephemina | #281598 Wednesday February 6, 2008 at 20:09 | |
Sowi's favorite tankadin lewl |
Eiila keeps hating on me for being 15/41/5. She says that we combat rogues are the fury warriors of roguedom and are "fools". She says being 16/0/45 is better in Kara. She's got a high view of herself and said I should talk to you again, Starlear. I wanna put her in her place. What's better for Kara, seriously? Recall I took much advice for this respec.
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| Zephemina edited this message on Wednesday February 6, 2008 at 22:08 | ||