| Guthammer | #274283 Tuesday December 11, 2007 at 09:02 | |
Shadowguarde Sunder Monkey |
Reading the EJ Rogue Theorycrafting thread: On combat dagger cycles: with T4 2pc, the cycle of choice is Xs/3r, most commonly 1s/3r, although other variants are possible. Typically increasing the CP used on SnD will not result in a gain of SnD uptime, because generating the additional CP will take as long as the amount of extra SnD duration gained. Without T4 2pc, the cycle of choice is 3s/5s/5r. (HELP! Please verify this section is correct. Thanks.) I assume this is using BS to generate CPs...is that right? --
4 70s and counting |
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| Guthammer edited this message on Tuesday December 11, 2007 at 12:25 | ||
| Lweien | #274426 Wednesday December 12, 2007 at 02:27 | |
Member |
I've actually been doing fine with a 3s/5r rotation, using Shiv as my CP generation tool, and with Deadly/Instant poisons. Granted, I am nowhere near having any TX pieces, and I doubt that this is an optimal rotation, it's just what I use, until I can find something else. I usually only Backstab at the start of the fight, and whenever I have to move for some reason. Probably a waste, but call me impatient about wanting to get CPs. :D --
My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield. While I draw breath, they shall not perish. So long as they live, our enemies will fall. I am defender, protector, guardian. I am a Paladin. |
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| Arkhain | #274430 Wednesday December 12, 2007 at 03:08 | |
this is it for a winner! |
Backstab is the primary CP generating attack for combat dagger specs. Shiv is unfortunately the worst attack you could use for combat daggers. It's AP normalized for instant swing speed, does not gain any bonus damage from Opportunity, and makes terrible use out of Dagger spec. If you do like the idea of using Shiv as a primary attack, spec swords. Offhand sword spec procs will proc the mainhand, and individual Shiv damage will rise greatly from switching from a dagger to a sword. |
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| Amirite | #274438 Wednesday December 12, 2007 at 08:35 | |
السلام عليكم |
The only time I'll shiv is when I'm on a trash mob or boss that fears or otherwise causes me to not be in a perfect rotation, then I'll shiv to get that last (5th) point up for a full rupture. Otherwise, I only use it in pvp. --
  "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - George Orwell "I look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character." - Martin Luther King, Jr. |
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| Alisia | #274441 Wednesday December 12, 2007 at 08:51 | |
Ready for Winter |
I've been using the 3s/5s/5r with my combat daggers spec. As for shiv, I have to agree that pvp use is one good place for it. The other I've found is for a raiding mutilate spec. Its great for making sure a poison gets applied before you use your energy on a mutilate. Which is especially useful since my shiv is only 34 energy. --
Ghostcrawler: "Rogue talents are hard because the class is ultimately very mathy." Ghostcrawler is secretly Barbie? |
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| Arkhain | #274444 Wednesday December 12, 2007 at 09:50 | |
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this is it for a winner! |
Aside from PvP, I wouldn't Shiv with daggers, even for Muti. An unpoisoned Muti still gives better damage and CP gen for two tics' worth of energy. This isn't to say that Shiv is bad. It's just that Shiv is a particularly bad application to Combat Daggers as it runs contrary to the spec's strengths. I've had the thought of trying a Shiv spec for fun, something like http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0eboyZGcEz0VzxMMot with filler as-you-will. This spec and idea's bogged down by poison, as in poor scaling on poison damage and the obvious poison-immune enemies. The necessity of a damage poison on your offhand excludes you from having double PvP poisons, and all of utility from using Shiv to apply them. On the upside, you have incredible CP generation, a decent amount of armor-ignoring damage, enough versatility to be basically C-Swords, and a fun offbeat spec that's easy to gear for. Definitely worth trying if you haven't outgeared your poisons heavily. |
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| Lweien | #274565 Thursday December 13, 2007 at 01:07 | |
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Member |
OK, looks like I'll have to take a serious look at my attack rotation now. then again, that's why I read these forums. --
My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield. While I draw breath, they shall not perish. So long as they live, our enemies will fall. I am defender, protector, guardian. I am a Paladin. |
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| Starlear | #274767 Friday December 14, 2007 at 11:06 | |
Tanked Vael for 10% without evasion. |
Shiv is pretty much useless aside from two things: 1) PvP when you use crippling poison offhand, it becomes Hamstring for rogues. 2) Dagger builds that don't want to spend points on improved SS. Shiv is abysmal damage/energy and even with its low energy cost it's lower combo points per energy than a mutilate. It's better combo points per energy than backstab but backstab literally hits close to 3x as hard on a crit, so... --
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