| Alaunt | #273688 Tuesday December 4, 2007 at 10:42 | |
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Alright I'll put my 2 cents in for why I like full arcane, even though the hardcore number crunchers insist it died with the meta gem internal cooldown. Alaunt's arcane spec The rationale: I frequently work with undergeared tanks in our 'family' guild so the threat reduction from arcane is really a must have for me.
The specifics Generally speaking, molten armor is not for arcanists; we get arcane impact to help offset the the loss of +crit. Use mage armor instead for added mana regen and resist all (remember a resist returns 5% of your mana pool). DPS modes: spamming arcane missiles is less mana intensive than AB spam. In fact with either a shadow priest in group or Blessing of Wisdom, I can channel AM almost indefinately. Even without outside regen, the mana gem changes {WTB Serpent Coil Braid}. This is lower but sustained DPS mode; on Alaunt AM ticks for a little over 700 normally and averages about 900 dps when you factor in crits. Your high dps mode is of course AB spam, and before you qq about it burning up your mana pool consider this: I have ~15k mana raid buffed. You can actually AB spam for longer than you think (I've done it the whole Prince fight a few times now). Finally, think Brilliant Dawnstones; with your talents a +8 int gem is really a +10 int, +3 dmg gem (the +crit adds up). |
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| Alisia | #273698 Tuesday December 4, 2007 at 11:34 | |
Ready for Winter |
Ok... don't jump on me for this, since my mage is only 40, and this is sort of a vague memory from a discussion with our current highest damage mage and triggered from Alaunt talking about his arcane spec. Apparently once you start going into Tirisfal arcane becomes more competetive. I think that the spec he uses is something like; http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=oi0Vf0czxIzioxg0zbMZ0h But its heavily crit reliant for the 4 piece proc, the deep arcane, and the fire talents. Also, since the other mages are fire he gets to mooch on the improved scorch, which doesn't hurt his damage either. --
Ghostcrawler: "Rogue talents are hard because the class is ultimately very mathy." Ghostcrawler is secretly Barbie? |
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| kaeble | #273709 Tuesday December 4, 2007 at 12:33 | |
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Since 2.3, it goes Deep Fire, Deep Frost, Arcane with T5 2 piece bonus right now. Icy Vein will close the gap if Deep Fire doesn't take it. Any combo with arc depends on other mages having scorch debuff if arc/fire and winter's chill if arc/frost. Without those, its hard for the arc combos to keep up in dps with other classes.
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This had to be my new sig: New and exciting 51 Mage talents! Arcane Garbage, Living Bomb, and Deep Shit. |
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| Alaunt | #273726 Tuesday December 4, 2007 at 14:18 | |
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quote: Originally posted by kaeble: Since 2.3, it goes Deep Fire, Deep Frost, Arcane with T5 2 piece bonus right now. Icy Vein will close the gap if Deep Fire doesn't take it. Any combo with arc depends on other mages having scorch debuff if arc/fire and winter's chill if arc/frost. Without those, its hard for the arc combos to keep up in dps with other classes. Aye, I would not argue that arcane is the highest dps spec right now by any means, fire still edges it out. However, don't confuse a full arcane spec (which is designed for AM/AB as primary means of dps) with Arc/X specs which rotate in frostbolts or scorches. The only reason I have elemental precision if is for arcane immune mobs and that my solo/grinding default is to open with frostbolt and then AM (which kills most non-elite mobs before they get to me). The notable exception is primal farming which with magic absorption and magic attunement usually means gather 4-6 mobs with icelance and kill em with arcane explosion. If it wasn't clear in my original post, this is all in the spirit of comparing different specs strengths and weaknesses rather than a X > Y > Z sort of thing :D |
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| kaeble | #273732 Tuesday December 4, 2007 at 15:01 | |
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Sorry I didn't mean anything by that comment. Just stating theory crafting numbers on that which doesn't take the skill of a person into consideration. The only spec I have not played is full arcane using AB and AM so I will leave that for you Alaunt. As far as the combo specs, yeah they are very different than full arcane. You really have to be geared for it since you don't get the deep tree specs of frost or fire. Damage scales very poorly unless you stack int and alot of it. I liked arc/frost since I was getting the big mana pool and bigger crits but I couldn't keep up with a full frost mage, Daphyd. I upped my crit rate to help with the difference in damage. Problem is you jump in aggro with that especially with a bunch of crits at the beginning of a boss fight. --
This had to be my new sig: New and exciting 51 Mage talents! Arcane Garbage, Living Bomb, and Deep Shit. |
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| Alaunt | #273735 Tuesday December 4, 2007 at 16:06 | |
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I'm actually toying around with trying arcane/frost in 2.3.2 to see how IV compliments the arcane tree. To do that though I would have to get T4 robe or possibly Robe of the Elder Scribes to replace Spellfire. Breaking spellfire would let me go back to using 4pc T4 which would be nice with trainable iceblock. Threat management in the hybrid specs is pretty easy: if you crit a few frost/fire spells early, swap to a few rounds of arcane missiles or blast to lower your TPS a bit. Even a clearcasting volley of AM won't generate that much threat without the empowered talent. Oh and I took no offense Kae; you and I have been debating frost versus arcane for years now ^_~ |
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| kaeble | #273750 Tuesday December 4, 2007 at 18:33 | |
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What I liked about the arc/frost spec is the versatility of it. For VR trash sheeps. It was nice to POM turtle them so I didn't need to worry about those stupid bombs. I died many times to that and the sawblades. Worst trash ever in stuff I have seen.
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This had to be my new sig: New and exciting 51 Mage talents! Arcane Garbage, Living Bomb, and Deep Shit. |
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| Cuchulain | #275119 Monday December 17, 2007 at 17:37 | |
Da Cuch is burning! |
So I've a question, and I can edit and post my spec later. I've spoken to a number of fire mages and they all go on about how imp-scorch is great and how scorch deals the best damage build up + mana conserving. Thing is, I've found it to be a total waste for me. I pump out far more damage and mana control useing a pyroblast (or whatever taht big arse meteor spell is called - at work can't think spell names) to pull and fireball to bring them down. Typicaly one pulling hit + 2 fireballs kills most mobs. And I have far more mana than I'd have left if i scorch 5 times followed by a FB. Anway point is, I don't see what's so great about scorch... the stacking of the buff is never worth it, IMO. --
"release the penguins" -Faerie's Aire and Death Waltz |
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| Brennith | #275123 Monday December 17, 2007 at 17:43 | |
Furry healer supreme |
I think you're talking about a different situation, cuch. You're talking about solo work, pulling mobs in 1's to get quests done. Most people talking about imp scorch are talking about instancing where someone else has agro.
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"Someone killed your father with a DWARF?" "That twisted sonofabitch!" http://pc.gamespy.com/flintlocke-vs-the-horde/episode-2-a-horrific-interruption/909252p1.html |
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| Hutch | #275290 Tuesday December 18, 2007 at 18:10 | |
TROGDOR the BURNiNATOR! |
quote: Originally posted by Brennith: I think you're talking about a different situation, cuch. You're talking about solo work, pulling mobs in 1's to get quests done. Most people talking about imp scorch are talking about instancing where someone else has agro. Agreed...and someone please correct me if I'm wrong...I know I could definitely use some tips on my spec, gear and spell rotation (always feel free to offer me advice - criticism doesn't bother me one bit). :o) I mostly only use scorch during boss fights to build up the debuff. Usually, my spell rotation is scorch x 5 and fireball x 7 (or less if the debuff is about to wear off). Outside of the boss fights, I just spam fireball with the occasional fireblast. Speaking of the fireblast, I'm still trying to figure out if it is worthwhile to put the fireblast into my spell rotation for shorter boss fights. There have been so many arguments on this. It is not mana efficient whatsoever, but does give you that extra punch. Although, you have to deal with the GCD. Others argue that since you do have that GCD, it is best to just spam fireball and kick in the fireblast at the end. What are your thoughts on this? --
"Keep practicing your spells and stand fast in your many sorceries. You may succeed. You may cause terror." - Isaiah 47:12 Starsky - 70 Fire Mage Hutch - 70 BM Hunter Silent Serenity  |
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| Hutch edited this message on Tuesday December 18, 2007 at 18:27 | ||
| Alaunt | #275393 Wednesday December 19, 2007 at 12:42 | |
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quote: Originally posted by Hutch: Speaking of the fireblast, I'm still trying to figure out if it is worthwhile to put the fireblast into my spell rotation for shorter boss fights. There have been so many arguments on this. It is not mana efficient whatsoever, but does give you that extra punch. Although, you have to deal with the GCD. Others argue that since you do have that GCD, it is best to just spam fireball and kick in the fireblast at the end. What are your thoughts on this? If you want to work in fireblasts as part of your rotations, you can toss a few points in improved fire blast to make the cd match the gcd at some point in your rotation. You are correct in stating that its not very mana effecient; however some people like it situations where they effectively cannot run out of mana (e.g. trash pulls) or as a 'finishing' move. |
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| kaeble | #275395 Wednesday December 19, 2007 at 12:54 | |
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If you are grouped with a SP, that is a nice addition to help out dps. As Alaunt said, if you are in an unending mana situation, you can use it to your advantage. Its also good to use if you have combustion up, When you high in comb stacks, use a fireblast right after a fireball since both will crit. You just have to count your crits after you pop comb. Props to Keire on that one.
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This had to be my new sig: New and exciting 51 Mage talents! Arcane Garbage, Living Bomb, and Deep Shit. |
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| Daikyll | #275422 Wednesday December 19, 2007 at 15:17 | |
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How should a deep fire mage gem? How should deep frost?
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Got MILF? I love my MILF mustache. Daikyll = Shinkunoleon's Forum name |
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| kaeble | #275449 Wednesday December 19, 2007 at 16:39 | |
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Start with your hit rating. Make sure you are at the max for your spec especially fire. If your fire spell gets resisted, it could be taking away a crit hit so you have the possibility of losing dps from not only the spell but also from the ignite that would come from a crit. After that, fire mages can concentrate on crit then damage. Frost mages can concentrate on damage.
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This had to be my new sig: New and exciting 51 Mage talents! Arcane Garbage, Living Bomb, and Deep Shit. |
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| Alissah | #275501 Wednesday December 19, 2007 at 20:50 | |
Wanderlust Lead |
I skimmed over the thread, I believe I saw one mage post about deep fire build. I am personally biased towards my own spec, for many reasons, I'll post my spec and attempt to explain why I have the talents I do. My spec is [18/41/2]. First off, I'd like to point out that I went far enough into arcane to pick up the meditation talent. Most mages are probably thinking "we don't have enough regen to make that matter," however, that's not true. It helps a TON with mana regen and conservation, that along with MoE (Master of Elements) tends to keep me going longer than many other mages. Secondly, I'd like to point out that although I'm fire I do NOT have pyroblast. I don't have PoM (Presence of Mind) and even if I did, I don't think picking up the talent for Pyroblast to use it only once every 3 minutes is worth it. The spell takes far too long to cast and isn't worth the time wasted to cast it, it's just a fire - fire/arcane mage trick for pvp, imo. Thirdly, these days while raiding people tend to be taking a lot more aoe damage than previous times, which is why I didn't pick up playing with fire. Sometimes us mages are squishy enough as it is, we don't need another talent to make us die faster. For a raiding mage, I think the risks outweigh the benefits, we can't do dps if we're dead afterall. Fourth, Blazing speed passed over - pvp trick, only plausible use would be when you're aoeing in a raid situation (which close ranged aoe is always tricky in a raid anyway) and most of the time you'll die before you get to take a step anyway. Wasted points for a raider. Fifth, I only have 2/3 pyromaniac, this is a preference because I chose to pick up dragons breath, which is of course pretty useless in raiding, however I found it worthwhile in heroics/instances in saving my life and other peoples, so I've kept it in my build. Also if you go into a pvp setting EVER, it's nice to have some aoe disorient, it could save your life. Sixth, I also only have 2/3 Elemental precision, this is because I have the hit on my gear and gemmed in such a fashion that the hit talent doesn't need to be filled. I could change my spec up a bit to get 3/3 again it's just a preference. Seventh, something I'd like to point out that a lot of mages that I used to play with didn't take into account, I am at hit cap. I don't know if any of you feel this way, but it is beneficial for a mage to be at hit cap. The tricky thing about the mage class in general seems to be that they require so many stats you're always giving up something for hit/crit/damage, unfortunately that's stats for the most part for us. Some of the tier gear tends to help with that especially the higher ranking stuff, but for now you get to make the decision what you like more and what you need more. Hit cap is very important, high crit is very important - ignite is after all a good 15% of a fire mages damage (or should be!). My rotation as someone else had posted consists of: 5 scorches (or as many to get up 5 scorch buffs on the boss). Fireballs (until I need to re-scorch again) If I have a string of crits going and a fireball doesn't crit I will throw in a fireblast or a scorch if there is time permitting to attempt to save the ignite tick and keep it rolling. Anyway, just my 2 cents on a fire mages build, any questions or comments, feel free to pm me or post >.> Alissah |
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