| kaeble | #273033 Thursday November 29, 2007 at 18:35 | |
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Ok since the Locks have one, us mages should have one. I basically know two specs, deep frost and Arc/frost. I am not an expert at them but I feel I know them well enough to comment on them. Arc/Frost-40/0/21 is the basic setup that I ran. This build needs alot of crit to it. It is nice when you have a frost mage with Winter's Chill. The crits are 150% with spell power and ice shards. The crits are very nice with this build especially with AP up. The advantages of this build are mana efficiency with frostbolt and is nice if you don't have much +damage. Also the mana pool is much larger with arcane mind. POMs with this are nice especially gives you more versatility with sheeping adds. Cooldowns are important to watch. You really want to AP as much as you can since that is your big dps equalizer with deep frost's WE. The disadvantages with this are the scaling issue with more +damage. You don't have the survivability of deep frost. Deep Frost: 10/0/51 I use a different setup with a 13/0/48 build which I will be switching. Basic formula for deep frost is have as much damage as possible. Crit is not as big with deep frost. I am a little different in that I have more crit than other frost mages might. It works well for me for the most part. Only time I have problem is when I crit right off the bat. The are a few advantages to this spec like mana efficiency, survivability, and you are specced for both pvp and raiding. Fire is the ultimate dpser at the moment but frost is not far behind. The disadvantages are some effects don't affect bosses. Losing the WE will hurt your dps. Cooldowns are so important that they will affect your spell rotation. Make sure you keep up ice barrier. Its helps out with healer mana. I can take if I remember right about 1300 damage with it now. If you are not using it consistently, you are wasting one of the benefits you can give a raid. Less healing done on you means more mana used somewhere else. Some things that helped my dps out: My spell rotation to begin with is WE, Icy Veins(when we get it :D),and then frostbolt till I get to the end the first WE to Cold Snap. If I have to use Iceblock before the WE dies, I would use Cold Snap at that point. With Cold Snap, you want to use it when you have the most cooldowns going. You want to keep up the WE as much as possible since its a big part of a frost mages dps. Make sure if you are moving like the VR fight, that you have the WE follow you so it doesn't die. Better to lose a few seconds of dps then to have the WE die. Quartz(Curse Gaming)-use it even with the current changes, its still nice to have it. I still use the stopcasting macros. Nice to be able to CS something without having to move to break spell. Best way to stop that heal before it goes off. Keybinding: Keire got me to keybind spells. Once I got my Nostromo pad, my dps jumped a big amount. I am sure it would have worked well with my keyborad also. On some fights like VR, you need to find out how far you need to move to be out of range of orbs. This has been the biggest part for me to learn. The more time you are moving the less you are dpsing. Find a spec that you enjoy. If you are not enjoying a spec, odds are you will not do as well. Also ask questions here. We are here to help you. We don't bite. These are my tidbits that I can think of right now. I may be off but someone will let me know if I am. ;) --
This had to be my new sig: New and exciting 51 Mage talents! Arcane Garbage, Living Bomb, and Deep Shit. |
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| kaeble | #273037 Thursday November 29, 2007 at 19:01 | |
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Also, you should have rank 1 frost nova. Never use the higher level ones. Its a waste of mana because the damage from the highest level is not worth the mana difference. Invisi-make sure you have Omen or KTM. Don't use it till you are around 110%ish of threat. The max value we can push to is 130% at range. Make sure you time it to get the full 5 seconds. It only drops 10% each second till you get the entire 5 seconds. At that point, it does the full drop of aggro. Click off and now you can dps yor heart out. And if you are over 100%, please don't move into melee range. You will pull the boss off the tank. Which can cause chain-reaction of deaths since most range people are over that 100%. --
This had to be my new sig: New and exciting 51 Mage talents! Arcane Garbage, Living Bomb, and Deep Shit. |
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| Brennith | #273038 Thursday November 29, 2007 at 19:06 | |
Furry healer supreme |
Here's my build with Kaiera: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Silver+Hand&n=Kaiera Basically, it's like the Arc/Frost build. I use spell rotations of Arcane Blastx2, Frost Boltx2, Arcane Blastx2. I'll break the rotation for Clearcasting Arcane Missiles (which is a key point, and is on a /stopcasting) with trinkets and AP. It's awesome to see those missiles. It's not as efficient as it could be (See the Plato thread) with using fire and scorch, but I'm playing frost because I got tired of fire. Used to be deep fire, then Arc Fire, then deep frost, now Arc Frost. I'll have to rethink this when 2.3.2 comes out. Right now, it's that deep for ice block. I still want the survivability I get as a frost mage, because Kaiera is an instance runner, for the forseeable future. PuGs are vicious, deadly monsters that you must take great preparation and cunning to deal with. Edit: Damn, high level frost nova is that worthless? --
"Someone killed your father with a DWARF?" "That twisted sonofabitch!" http://pc.gamespy.com/flintlocke-vs-the-horde/episode-2-a-horrific-interruption/909252p1.html |
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| kaeble | #273069 Thursday November 29, 2007 at 22:21 | |
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Yeah it is. Its not worth the mana for the damage. There is no difference in the rooting part of frost nova. Might as well as use rank 1 to save the mana.
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This had to be my new sig: New and exciting 51 Mage talents! Arcane Garbage, Living Bomb, and Deep Shit. |
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| karbynna | #273086 Friday November 30, 2007 at 00:20 | |
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quote: Originally posted by kaeble: Yeah it is. Its not worth the mana for the damage. There is no difference in the rooting part of frost nova. Might as well as use rank 1 to save the mana. Aren't mobs more likely to resist the lower level spell though? |
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| kaeble | #273099 Friday November 30, 2007 at 01:16 | |
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Nope they don't resist it. I also use a level 1 frostbolt in pvp to slow a person down. 1 sec cast ftw. --
This had to be my new sig: New and exciting 51 Mage talents! Arcane Garbage, Living Bomb, and Deep Shit. |
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| Kahlil | #273130 Friday November 30, 2007 at 09:36 | |
Old Man |
I'll go on a bit about the Fire/Arcane spec I'm currently using on Kahlil, when I get time to play. Korinth is the guy I play most of my time with these days, but word has it I knew a thing or two about mages back in the day; some is hopefully still good stuffs. :P 18/43 : This is a single boss raiding dps spec. I've cut out some of the fun tools that don't get used much when you have a single boss roaming around. If you're using Dragon's Breath on a boss to try and disorient it, chances are its because you've just pulled agro and are about to get squashed and made into Mage Pie. Blast wave suffers pretty much the same fate, and while its useful in a lot of situations, AE is respectable doesn't cost some talent points. A couple things I do have is Magic Attunement and Meditation. Mmmm, 30% base regen while casting, oh how I love thee. It makes a big difference in the longer fights, even without much spirit gear, and can help to overcome the gear deficit I deal with on Kahlil. In time with better gear, as long as I don't run out of mana on a boss (While chugging mana pots and gems) those 8 points can be better put into to hit and finishing the fire tree; but this works rather well. Speaking of Gear, don't use Kahlil's gemming as any kind of guide; it's wrong. :P Important stats are in order Hit >> Damage >> Crit, and the hit cap for him is fairly high; around 200 with out the 3% to hit from the frost tree. When I slotted his current gear with gems I didn't think in those terms, and so he has a disproportionally large amount of crit given his other stats. Spell rotation: At the beginning of every fight, trash or not, where I'm the only mage: Scorch >> Fire Blast >> Scorch X 3 >> Fire Blast >> Scorch >> Fireball >> Fire Blast Getting that scorch debuff up == god. The only time this will change is due to range/mana conservation issues, in which case it'll be Scorch X 5 >> Fire Ball. Having 2 points in Fire Blast makes this work very well, the timing is perfect. 1 isn't enough, and 3 is too much; fire blast comes back before that last Scorch or Fireball is done. Once that scorch debuff is up, Fire Ball is your best dps. If you're not worried about mana, ( Fire Ball X 2 >> Fire Blast ) X 3 >> Scorch to renew debuff. If you are worried about mana, Fire Ball X 7(sometimes 6 if I'm worried about scorch being resisted) >> Scorch. You can maybe squeeze in 8 there, but don't recommend it; having scorch fall off the target is a large loss, and means you have to re-apply the whole thing. Just keep it up, and go to town. If you have other fire mages, the opening rotation can change depending on the other mages habits, but if you're both going to do the same thing it should be Scorch X 2 >> Fire Blast >> Scorch >> Fireball >> Fire Blast If you're lazy you can do a Scorch >> Fireball >> Fire Blast rotation forever, the timing is set for it, but you'll do a bit lower dps than the above. One of the main advantages to going with scorches as well is it's a moderatable agro gain; you don't spike as much so you're less likely to pass the tank in threat immediately. When I'm on my tank, I have a pretty set policy. You pull off me by opening up with a crit fireball, frostbolt or whatever, my taunt button doesn't work for a couple seconds. It just breaks, I don't know why. <.< Cheers, (The above spec isn't exactly recommended, with proper gear you'll do more damage with a more cookie-cutter 10/48/3 spec. And Kahlil used to be that and will again. The spell rotation and importance however stays the same) --
Korinth, Dwarven Tnak Kahlil, Jumping Mage (Caster Lead v1.0, Lead Emeritus, BR Tank Lead Emeritus, Easterners Charter Lead) "It is well to give when asked but it is better to give unasked, through understanding." - Kahlil Gibran |
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| Kahlil edited this message on Friday November 30, 2007 at 09:46 | ||
| Daikyll | #273149 Friday November 30, 2007 at 11:06 | |
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Kahlil, if you can spare 3 points anywhere, get three in Frost man. Elemental Precision is a wonderful tool. My mage is currently 10/48/3 because I use him for farming, but would be better tweaked for raid DPS by dropping what I have in Dragon's Breath, Pyromaniac and Impact and going for 3 points in MOE and (When the patch is released) going up 11 points in frost. --
Got MILF? I love my MILF mustache. Daikyll = Shinkunoleon's Forum name |
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| KeeRissa | #273222 Friday November 30, 2007 at 14:52 | |
Burn or Heal? |
Keelyn is 10/48/3 atm: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Silver+Hand&n=Keelyn I kept dragon's breath mostly for soloing. I use arcane explosion for AOE pulls. Pyroblast to me is useless, as was blastwave. I have some people ask my why I bothered with 3/3 in imp fireblast and this is mostly for soloing - I can usually kill things in two fireblasts. My spell rotations are the standard: Scorch x 5 Fireball X 7 (or 8, depending on the fight) Scorch Fireball X 7 etc etc I don't cast fireblast in my boss rotations - it's a waste of mana, in my opinion. 10/48/3 relies on hit rating to make it high DPS - with elemental precision, 164 is the cap; without it, you need 202. From what little theory-crafting I've done, I see hit rating > + damage > crit. Here are two threads I recommend all mages of any spec read: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=75311165&sid=1 and http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=106738310&sid=1 Both are excellent resources of easy answers and the math to back them up. There are also guides that branch out from these. |
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| kaeble | #273223 Friday November 30, 2007 at 14:57 | |
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My new build once 2.3.2 comes out: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=ofZZVAMfRfxsiqt With the improvement to the mana gems, I think they will cover the loss of clearcast. I will have to see the difference with it. I think its still important to have the 40% threat reduction in arcane. Shatter + AE is a nice combo for bosses with adds. Also I have never noticed. Does blizz stack Winter's Chill? If it does I may have to also Blizz to begin with. Daphyd usually begins with that. I usually FN first then AE. I have 50% increase in crit on frozen. --
This had to be my new sig: New and exciting 51 Mage talents! Arcane Garbage, Living Bomb, and Deep Shit. |
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| kaeble | #273265 Friday November 30, 2007 at 18:01 | |
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Try this out. Lhivera is one of the good mages that does theory crafting. This is a nice way to look at your total numbers to see what else you need gear wise. http://tc.awenet.com/index.php You can load your profile from armory and compare two different specs. Take a look at it and try it out. --
This had to be my new sig: New and exciting 51 Mage talents! Arcane Garbage, Living Bomb, and Deep Shit. |
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| Arkhain | #273278 Friday November 30, 2007 at 18:43 | |
this is it for a winner! |
I think it's worth putting out there, that every raiding caster needs to max their hit. Some talent trees require less, but every caster needs 16%. Anyways, as long as 10/48/3 has been covered, we should be good. While we might need to go over some IV 9/41/11 specs next patch, the necessary basic Raiding Mage™ spec should go a long way -- certainly everything but Al'ar. |
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| Flufkin | #273662 Monday December 3, 2007 at 23:45 | |
Chaotic Good in a tiny, pointy package |
quote: Originally posted by Arkhain: I think it's worth putting out there, that every raiding caster needs to max their hit. Some talent trees require less, but every caster needs 16%. Is there a magic number for this percent? I assume mages should work on +hit until this point, then start adding + damage? Dewkin will be deep frost, when she finally respecs from levelling/surviving spec and starts to try to raid.... any ideas about how much +spellhit or how to get it? (she's got frozen shadoweave set already) --
   ~~ the emotional tylopod asks you to stop ~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~ http://xkcd.com/386/ ~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
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| Flufkin edited this message on Monday December 3, 2007 at 23:55 | ||
| Arkhain | #273668 Tuesday December 4, 2007 at 01:26 | |
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this is it for a winner! |
202 rating for 16% without talents 164 rating for 13% elemental mages 76 rating for 6% Arcane mages. Gear for it where you can. Gems and glove enchants help, but any item with spell hit is a huge bonus. |
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| kaeble | #273672 Tuesday December 4, 2007 at 02:30 | |
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Also there is a theory that deep frost mages don't need as much +hit. I have around 120 hit and I only resist at most 1%. Daphyd and I have noticed it on previous run. I forgot to change out my crit wand for my hit wand and I did notice a jump in resists. I changed it out and it went back to less than 1%. Lhivera, a mage theorycrafter thinks it might have to do with binary part of frostsbolt. I think it is doubling the elemetal precision. Instead of 3%, frostbolt mages are getting 6$. Not sure about it but so far the numbers support it.
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This had to be my new sig: New and exciting 51 Mage talents! Arcane Garbage, Living Bomb, and Deep Shit. |
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