| Kahlil | #264804 Wednesday September 12, 2007 at 10:32 | |
Old Man |
quote: Originally posted by Cuchulain: quote: Originally posted by Kahlil: Taunt. If that fails, giggle and ... "giggle"!??!?!?!?!? Not "Hartily laugh" but "giggle" you know.. like a lil gnome girl does when she's playing with her dollies :D This was advise for Quin, and I've heard her giggle. :P If it was to someone like myself or Raukurk or something "Give out a hearty laugh at their misfortunes" or some such. Well, actually, if it was Rauk it would be more like "Give out a heartly laugh, suck back a cold one, and pass out drunk with your mic so we can all hear", but I digress. <.< --
Korinth, Dwarven Tnak Kahlil, Jumping Mage (Caster Lead v1.0, Lead Emeritus, BR Tank Lead Emeritus, Easterners Charter Lead) "It is well to give when asked but it is better to give unasked, through understanding." - Kahlil Gibran |
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| Alisia | #264824 Wednesday September 12, 2007 at 13:24 | |
Ready for Winter |
quote: Originally posted by Camryn: My opinion? Don't go out of your way to stop the mob. Build aggro as best you can, but when your DPS doesn't hold back as needed - let them die. If they keep doing it, they'll learn eventually. Or die a lot. Either way, I feel good about the situation. /agree What Cam has said is much truth (in both posts). Though perhaps people can answer my question about this here. Demo shout is one that I keep seeing weird stuff about. People pretty much agree that it should be up, because taking a warlock curse of weakness ends up being a loss in dps. At the same time I see a lot more people advocating that because its low-ish threat (56 divided among targets) that it should be applied by an OT or a dps warrior rather than the MT. If the MT has to keep his own demo shout up apparently it eats into the tps in the same way feint eats into a rogue's dps. Unless tanking multiple mobs where it ends up helping. I was wondering whether or not you found that to be the case? --
Ghostcrawler: "Rogue talents are hard because the class is ultimately very mathy." Ghostcrawler is secretly Barbie? |
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| Guthammer | #264825 Wednesday September 12, 2007 at 13:38 | |
Shadowguarde Sunder Monkey |
Its a single GCD every 30 seconds. I would less worried about it for TPS than the fact its one more 30 second timer I have to track while already trying to watch shield block, revenge, devastate, heroic, commanding shout, shield slam, thunder clap and spell reflect. Oh while making sure that no one is too close to my threat and keeping the mob well positioned. DPS warriors, while busy, are a lot less busy than MTs. --
4 70s and counting |
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| Tenatia | #264827 Wednesday September 12, 2007 at 14:21 | |
Warlock/Caster Lead Emeritus |
I tend to use demo shout to grab pack aggro before the aoe kicks in. It has no reasonable limit of mobs it hits, unlike the 4 mob cap on thunderclap, and it can be just enough to keep the healers from getting aggro from a single renew tick on the tank before he even gets the first hit in. On some AoE packs, I've been known to spam Thunderclap and Demo while popping into zerker for whirlwind and back to defensive. Does it help control aggro? It's better than not spamming it if you have lots of rage, and 8 mobs about to be AoE'd. As far as an off tank being responsible for keeping it up, that's one of the things I do, keep that and Thunderclap up, so the MT who's getting the snot beat out of him, can concentrate on shield block and high aggro/mitigation moves. --
Grimjim Stonebreaker, Dwarf, 70 Protection Warrior, Health: 13.6k, Armour:16k, Defense: ~495 // Attuned for: Ony/MC/BWL/Kara Tenatia Saendar, Human, 70 Demonology Warlock // Attuned for: Ony/MC/BWL/Naxx/Kara Pietro Loyallar, Human, 70 Priest // Attuned for: Ony/MC/BWL/Kara Theraint Griffinforge, Dwarf, 65 Paladin // Attuned for: Ony/MC/BWL |
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| Alisia | #264836 Wednesday September 12, 2007 at 15:12 | |
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Ready for Winter |
Yes, but, for example, feint is on a 10 second cooldown, it costs 20 energy, which is the same as 2 seconds of regeneration. If you use it whenever its up you lose 1 ss every 20 seconds, and effectively it will take more than 20 seconds for a 5 point combo unless you chained through with a lucky relentless strikes or combat potency proc. If I have my math right here; Using Camryn's armory profile it looks like he should be generating something like 6 rage a second on average from doing damage and (assuming immune to crits and good avoidance) another 7 rage a second from being hit. So on average he's generating 13 rage a second. Meaning 780 rage a minute. So for the basic rotation that Cam suggested the basic threat generators will cost 354 rage over that minute. Though this is under an assumption I made that revenge will be up every 11 seconds or so. If you use the remaining rage on heroic strikes and thunderclap you would get about 13500 threat on HS if I'm doing the math right, and then another 10k from thunderclap. But if you keep up demo shout yourself you're only generating 112 threat per minute on that attack. And you end up missing out on the threat from at least one thunderclap, which would have been 1300 or so threat over the course of an 8 min fight. I guess its only important to worry about in terms of a maximum tps situation. But, you can see why its something I've been wondering right? --
Ghostcrawler: "Rogue talents are hard because the class is ultimately very mathy." Ghostcrawler is secretly Barbie? |
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| Guthammer | #264849 Wednesday September 12, 2007 at 17:35 | |
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Shadowguarde Sunder Monkey |
I am under the impression that even trash (of the elite variety) gives me gives effectively infinite rage. (I will pay more attention next time I tank KZ.) The only time I will notice a real rage drop is popping Shield Slam and Spell Reflect very close together. Also remember that any deeply specced prot tank is going to have focused rage (3/3) that knocks 3 rage off the cost of all offensive moves. Revenge, for me, is 2 rage. Sunder, heroic and devastate are 12 (and for some tanks sunder and heroic can be as cheap as 9), shield slam 17 (iirc). Tanking warriors are usually in a feast or famine mode. Either we are being hit--and have rage--or we aren't and we are rage starved. --
4 70s and counting |
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| Redfang | #264860 Wednesday September 12, 2007 at 21:33 | |
aka Elkheart, aka Challice |
This is very good to read, because it pretty much describes what I've been doing, which makes me think I must be doing something right. Something I've been wondering for awhile now though - is there any way to build a macro that will cast Sunder Armor unless there are already 5 up, in which case it will cast Devastate? Oh and Quin - I remember when I took SS too (long time ago, now, but I still remember). I saw it in the tree and was like "Eh, I don't see what's so great," and took it strictly because everyone was always saying to use it, use it, use it. I tried it out a few times and was in love. Plus it makes that awesome DONK noise. Yanking aggro is so much more satisfying when it's accompanied by a hearty DONK. True story: sometimes, in Auchindoun, my sound used to get screwed up and I'd lose my Sunder noises and my DONKs. I swear to god my tanking got worse. --
You are sitting there, breathing in your breath You are seldom breathing life, but mostly death  The following have reached Exalted status with "The Red Fang": Riz of the Red Fang |
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| Redfang | #264861 Wednesday September 12, 2007 at 21:36 | |
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aka Elkheart, aka Challice |
quote: Originally posted by Tenatia: I found on my priest I was staring at the raid's healthbars, and less at actual cooldowns, and on my warlock, I tend to be more boss aware, and watching my debuff timer and castbar more than anything else. Tanking is easily the most challenging role that I have tried. I agree with this totally. I think it's a big part of why I prefer it so much over DPSing. I recently remapped my keyboard so I can reach Sunder,Revenge,HS,SS, and SB with two fingers. Works awesomely, but sometimes I think my brain is gonna fry. --
You are sitting there, breathing in your breath You are seldom breathing life, but mostly death The following have reached Exalted status with "The Red Fang": Riz of the Red Fang |
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| Arkhain | #264870 Wednesday September 12, 2007 at 23:15 | |
this is it for a winner! |
Hearing a sheild bash connect is like a tuning fork going off in your loins. There's no easy way to macro five sunders then a devastate. Macros can't "sense" if there're five sunders up. You could try a castsequence of five sunders and a dozen devastaes, but if any sunders fail to hit you'll have to connect them manually and multi-target use would be difficult at best. As far as demo and TC go, it's always nicer from a tank perspective to have someone else put them up against a boss. It's not always possible or correct (no Ot warrior, or AOE threat, etc), obviously, but the same concept applies to just about any debuff or buff. My mage loses DPS putting up Scorch debuffs, so it's always nice to have someone else helping with that. Ultimately though, Demo and TC (and Scorch) are so necessary that someone needs to put them up -- if it's the MT, even at the cost of his own threat, it should be done. Touching on macros, there's a few I use. I believe the Intercept (and Righteous Defense) targettarget functionality should be innate, but until they make it so I'll have that macroed. I have a macro that'll TC in battle or D, WW in Zerk that I have on a side bar, and a similar macro for Reck, Retaliation and Shield Wall depending on stance. I have my weapon combinations on macros of various threat weapons, defensive weapons, DW combinations, and my 2H, as well. |
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